Red Wings 2024-25 Season Catch All

[TLGTrico 651]

Am I alone in thinking that Edvinssonon is overtaking Seider as our best defenseman?

[town123 218]

36 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

Am I alone in thinking that Edvinssonon is overtaking Seider as our best defenseman?

Shush... quiet down now.     Pretty sure SY would rather extend him now rather then when you are proven correct.   And yep, you are correct enough.

[Rick D 382]

56 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

Am I alone in thinking that Edvinssonon is overtaking Seider as our best defenseman?

What a good problem to have. I’m glad we finally have a couple of really good young D. 

[kipwinger 8,732]

2 hours ago, mackel said:

Most of this is accurate... the problem... where/how do we get the players we need?

In one case I think we have a player we need bit he needs a reset.  Rasmussen needs a coach to get in his ear to make him play his size.  Meek Lalonde isn't that guy.  Until Rasmussen plays with an edge hits everyone chips in offensively he's a wasted talent.

Joe V should be trade bait.

I think we’ve got talent, even top end talent, coming at every position. Add MBN, Mazur, Lombardi to the wings, Danielson at center, Cossa and Augustine in goal, and ASP on defense to the lineup and fill in around them in free agency/trade. 

Edited December 4, 2024 by kipwinger

[mackel 755]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I think we’ve got talent, even top end talent, coming at every position. Add MBN, Mazur, Lombardi to the wings, Danielson at center, Cossa and Augustine in goal, and ASP on defense to the lineup and fill in around them in free agency/trade. 

Kyle Conner is a UFA after next season... Winnipeg is doing well but it's also a cold s***hole. 

[town123 218]

Good for Cossa.   Glad he finally got some action and he looked okay.   He seemed pretty nervous at first and settled in just just fine, although he got pretty lucky in the shootout with his best friend mr. post.   

Was it just me or did Mo look like he was having fun scoring and killing people?  FreeMo

[kipwinger 8,732]

Seider for sure had some jump last night. The whole team looked like they were comfortable and playing loose and not “gripping their sticks too tight”. 
 

I’m sure Lalonde hated it. Like Babcock before him, he’d rather lose a game 2-1 than win a game 6-5. 

[kipwinger 8,732]

Looks like we got a real one in Max Plante too. Kids scoring at a really good rate for a D+1 player in the NCAA. He’s producing about like Larkin did in the same league at the same age. Apparently he’s grown too. Heard on a podcast in the fall that he’s 6ft or 6’1 now, according to Max Bultman. 

[mackel 755]

17 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Looks like we got a real one in Max Plante too. Kids scoring at a really good rate for a D+1 player in the NCAA. He’s producing about like Larkin did in the same league at the same age. Apparently he’s grown too. Heard on a podcast in the fall that he’s 6ft or 6’1 now, according to Max Bultman. 

I like that they took a chance instead of drafting a safe low ceiling/high floor 4th liner like they usually do.

[kipwinger 8,732]

12 hours ago, mackel said:

I like that they took a chance instead of drafting a safe low ceiling/high floor 4th liner like they usually do.

I mean, they’ve taken high offensive upside picks a lot in the 2nd and 3rd round under SY. Lombardi, Mazur, Beecher, Plante, Buchelnikov, Noah Dower Nilsson are all high offense guys. 

Edited December 12, 2024 by kipwinger

[kipwinger 8,732]

Last season Detroit was a winning team that lost games they shouldn't have because they lacked depth and they were bad defensively. This year they're a losing team that cares more about trying to shut opponents out defensively than actually winning hockey games.

[Rick D 382]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

This year they're a losing team that cares more about trying to shut opponents out defensively than actually winning hockey games.

This is the part I am having a hard time understanding.

It seems to me that we aren't a team built to play like this, we lost D over the summer and added some shooters up front. It would seem to me that we would be trending toward being a scoring team, and trying to outgun opponents. 

[LeftWinger 5,090]

55 minutes ago, Rick D said:

This is the part I am having a hard time understanding.

It seems to me that we aren't a team built to play like this, we lost D over the summer and added some shooters up front. It would seem to me that we would be trending toward being a scoring team, and trying to outgun opponents. 

The only players hitting anywhere a PPG are Larkin, and DeCat with Raymond netting over a PPG. The #4 and #5 scorers are Seider and Edvinsson. Everyone else is well below .5 PPG on down. Kane is showing his age and is not as energized as last season (coaching issue?) We should have 3 lines scoring more than they currently are. They are ALL capable of it.

Kane(.43 ppg) - Larkin(.82) - DeCat(.82)

Raymond(1.07) - Kasper(.29) - Tarasenko(.44)

Berggren(.21) - Copp(.39) - Compher(.44)

I'm not expecting a PPG player out of each of them, but they can all do much better than what's shown. This is definitely a coaching issue. The only player below .5 ppg I excuse is Kasper, since he is just now finding top 6 minutes. Do all these players stink? I find that hard to believe. This team needs a coaching change PRONTO! 

Rassmussen (.29) and Veleno (.08) have zero business being on this team, nor should they have gotten the raises they did. But then again, their roles are a little different, although it seems (as with most recent Holland picks) these guys were a waste of a 1st round pick. Still should not have been 1st rounders.

Suzuki, Necas, Frost, or Robert Thomas would've been a better pick for a center at #9 than Rasmussen(I am not going to say they should've drafted Tippett, because he is a RW, although he is outscoring Ras by 31 points in 41 less games played.)

Plus we all know Holland was supposed to draft Hughes or Bouchard instead of Zadina, so who knows what would've been different at #30. Plus Berggren was #33 that same draft. Right now it's looking like the 2018 1st round (and high 2nd) was a bust for Detroit considering they should've gone for D.

Edited December 12, 2024 by LeftWinger

[kipwinger 8,732]

On 12/4/2024 at 5:11 PM, TLGTrico said:

Am I alone in thinking that Edvinssonon is overtaking Seider as our best defenseman?

Go look at my pre-season predictions the last two years. I think Edvinsson's already better (despite thinking Seider is very good) and the only reason he's not outscoring Seider is because he's not getting top powerplay opportunities...yet.

I was thinking about it the other day and they really remind me a lot of Pronger and Niedermayer. Both are good at pretty much every aspect of the game, but Seider (like Neidermayer) excels more than his partner in the offensive zone, and Edvinsson (like Pronger) is better a stopping plays and shutting down the opposition. As a pair they're unstoppable.

[kipwinger 8,732]

24 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

The only players hitting anywhere a PPG are Larkin, and DeCat with Raymond netting over a PPG. The #4 and #5 scorers are Seider and Edvinsson. Everyone else is well below .5 PPG on down. Kane is showing his age and is not as energized as last season (coaching issue?) We should have 3 lines scoring more than they currently are. They are ALL capable of it.

Kane(.43 ppg) - Larkin(.82) - DeCat(.82)

Raymond(1.07) - Kasper(.29) - Tarasenko(.44)

Berggren(.21) - Copp(.39) - Compher(.44)

I'm not expecting a PPG player out of each of them, but they can all do much better than what's shown. This is definitely a coaching issue. The only player below .5 ppg I excuse is Kasper, since he is just now finding top 6 minutes. Do all these players stink? I find that hard to believe. This team needs a coaching change PRONTO! 

Rassmussen (.29) and Veleno (.08) have zero business being on this team, nor should they have gotten the raises they did. But then again, their roles are a little different, although it seems (as with most recent Holland picks) these guys were a waste of a 1st round pick. Still should not have been 1st rounders.

Suzuki, Necas, Frost, or Robert Thomas would've been a better pick for a center at #9 than Rasmussen(I am not going to say they should've drafted Tippett, because he is a RW, although he is outscoring Ras by 31 points in 41 less games played.)

Plus we all know Holland was supposed to draft Hughes or Bouchard instead of Zadina, so who knows what would've been different at #30. Plus Berggren was #33 that same draft. Right now it's looking like the 2018 1st round (and high 2nd) was a bust for Detroit considering they should've gone for D.

Both Hughes and Bouchard suck. Lefty, like a lot of fans you're absolutely mesmerized by offense. But individual scoring means very little in terms of team success. Hughes pads his stats against bad teams all season long and gets worked over in the playoffs. Don't believe me? In the Edmonton series (which Vancouver lost), Hughes had 4 secondary assists, 1 primary assist, no goals, and was held scoreless in three other games. Bouchard is even worse. They're just easy offense guys. Remember when Bert and AA had 30 goals for the Wings? Is that because they're good, or because they were gifted prime offensive opportunities which padded their stats, but also meant that the team overall was destined to fail because we had limited players in important roles.

Fans always get this wrong about hockey. They think offense is indicative of quality play as opposed to quality minutes. Take any loser and give him top six minutes and powerplay time and you'll see their numbers thrive while the team fails. Remember Abby on the top line? Remember Ian White on the top pair? Career numbers for both those individuals but the team was worse off for it.

Quinn Hughes and Evan Bouchard suffer from the same problem as Erik Karlsson does. They're only good at scoring, and so to maximize their value you have to play them a lot (so they score a lot) but that also means that they'll be on the ice for a bunch of things they're not good at, like keeping opponents from the crease, protecting leads, winning board battles, defending against top players. And because they don't do those things well, but are still on the ice, you get cycled and scored on a bunch. This is exactly the reason Patrick Kane blows too.

Edited December 12, 2024 by kipwinger

[Jimmybigrigs69 319]

9 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Both Hughes and Bouchard suck. Lefty, like a lot of fans you're absolutely mesmerized by offense. But individual scoring means very little in terms of team success. Hughes pads his stats against bad teams all season long and gets worked over in the playoffs. Don't believe me? In the Edmonton series (which Vancouver lost), Hughes had 4 secondary assists, 1 primary assist, no goals, and was held scoreless in three other games. Bouchard is even worse. They're just easy offense guys. Remember when Bert and AA had 30 goals for the Wings? Is that because they're good, or because they were gifted prime offensive opportunities which padded their stats, but also meant that the team overall was destined to fail because we had limited players in important roles.

Fans always get this wrong about hockey. They think offense is indicative of quality play as opposed to quality minutes. Take any loser and give him top six minutes and powerplay time and you'll see their numbers thrive while the team fails. Remember Abby on the top line? Remember Ian White on the top pair? Career numbers for both those individuals but the team was worse off for it.

Quinn Hughes and Evan Bouchard suffer from the same problem as Erik Karlsson does. They're only good at scoring, and so to maximize their value you have to play them a lot (so they score a lot) but that also means that they'll be on the ice for a bunch of things they're not good at, like keeping opponents from the crease, protecting leads, winning board battles, defending against top players. And because they don't do those things well, but are still on the ice, you get cycled and scored on a bunch. This is exactly the reason Patrick Kane blows too.

I dont disagree with you, but none of this is unique. You can say this about any team and any sport. Its the nature of it all. 

And It's the mediocritty trap that teams fall into. And I would argue this team has fallen into it with Larkin. He's barely good enough, and our roster is needy enough, that yall are absolutely okay with it. Hes a medicore defensive center with A-/B+ scoring for a 1st liner. But LOL look how dumb Karlsson and Bouchard and Highes are! Brother, takeaway the wings jersey, and hes right there with em. 

[kipwinger 8,732]

Also, where's all the "give Steven Stamkos" 8+ million (or more lol) crowd now? It's awfully quite these days but I vaguely remember a few of you really beating the drum for that guy? Whatever happened to him? Them?

[Akakabuto 1,838]

On 12/13/2024 at 3:01 PM, kipwinger said:

Also, where's all the "give Steven Stamkos" 8+ million (or more lol) crowd now? It's awfully quite these days but I vaguely remember a few of you really beating the drum for that guy? Whatever happened to him? Them?

One of them is banned. 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Akakabuto

[town123 218]

Good win vs the Loafs saturday night.   Did Kane suddenly turn the light on?   He sure looked like he was auditioning on HNIC and pumping up his trade value.

 

 

[LeftWinger 5,090]

It seems that The Yzerplan this season is to let the team rot.

[kipwinger 8,732]

37 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

It seems that The Yzerplan this season is to let the team rot.

 

Pretty much. It's clearly Yzerman is just treading water until the majority of the team is made up of HIS draft picks. He let the team fall apart last year and did not bolster the team via the trade deadline, then didn't retain much of the talent he was set to lose in FA, and then finally gutted the defense through trades. It really seems like he's planning to "contend" with a team whose oldest player is Larkin. All the rest (Copp, Compher, Chiarot, Petry, Kane, Tarasenko) will be gone and replaced by Yzerman draft picks over the coming years and it seems like that's when he's looking to compete.

[LeftWinger 5,090]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

 

Pretty much. It's clearly Yzerman is just treading water until the majority of the team is made up of HIS draft picks. He let the team fall apart last year and did not bolster the team via the trade deadline, then didn't retain much of the talent he was set to lose in FA, and then finally gutted the defense through trades. It really seems like he's planning to "contend" with a team whose oldest player is Larkin. All the rest (Copp, Compher, Chiarot, Petry, Kane, Tarasenko) will be gone and replaced by Yzerman draft picks over the coming years and it seems like that's when he's looking to compete.

I'm frankly tired of drafting and waiting, drafting and waiting. I think Yzerman should dangle a 1st out there for a young (25 or less) NHL talent grade A+ talent. Who? I dunno, but it's obvious we need better players that are NHL ready, like yesterday!

So if they are riding it out and waiting for the kids to be up, then I'd love to see a trade to get a legit 2C (25 or under) or scoring wing (25 or under.) I'd trade a (protected) 1st and Veleno, or Rasmussen, and maybe another pick along with a lower prospect. Also, I don't want to see Kane, Motte, Petry, Husso, or Lyon re-signed. Next years goalie tandem HAS to be Talbot and Cossa.

Trade Chiarot for whatever you can get at the TDL. He is about the only vet D that has even a smidgen of value. He cold be used in a package to acquire an expiring contract for another team's cap relief.

If we are rotting this year away, next season all of MBN, Danielson, Mazur, Wallinder, ASP need to be in Detroit along with Kasper. Just put them in. I'm SO OVER "waiting" for the plan to take affect!

Edited December 16, 2024 by LeftWinger

[Jimmybigrigs69 319]

On 12/13/2024 at 6:01 AM, kipwinger said:

Also, where's all the "give Steven Stamkos" 8+ million (or more lol) crowd now? It's awfully quite these days but I vaguely remember a few of you really beating the drum for that guy? Whatever happened to him? Them?

There was a report/rumor a few weeks ago that SY had a sizeable deal ready for Stammer this summer, but Illitch kybashed it

[kipwinger 8,732]

22 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm frankly tired of drafting and waiting, drafting and waiting. I think Yzerman should dangle a 1st out there for a young (25 or less) NHL talent grade A+ talent. Who? I dunno, but it's obvious we need better players that are NHL ready, like yesterday!

I don't agree. Imagine if Colorado had started trading away first round draft picks because they'd already drafted Ryan O'Reilly, Matt Duchene, Tyson Barrie, Paul Stastny, Keven Shattenkirk, and Gabriel Landeskog? They'd have missed on MacKinnon, Rantanen, or Makar. Yzerman should absolutely NOT do anything different regarding drafting and developing. It's the one area where our team has most obviously improved. Under Yzerman we've hit on draft picks over and over in all rounds. Look at the success we've had finding talent OUTSIDE the 1st round: Mazur, Wallinder, Buchelnikov, Augustine, Lombardi, Finnie, etc. We need to make our picks until we're obviously a contender and THEN start trading draft picks away.

We need a new coach and we need SY to make better choices regarding the pro-scouting aspect of the game. But even THAT'S an overblown problem because people seem to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater on pro-scouting too. Everyone says our pro-scouting is bad, but I don't really agree. Is there anyone who WOULDN'T have traded Fabbri for De La Rose? Leddy for Walman and picks? Signed Gostisbehere, Sprong, or Perron? Even Compher and Copp? Those guys have bad contracts (which is on SY and not the pro-scouting staff), but they're both useful players. Chiarot too. Even the two trades for Husso and Ned were decent at the time.

The real problem is that SY has made a series of terrible decisions regarding this player pool. He's generally kept crappier players than he's let go. We'd all rather have Perron, Fabbri, Sprong, Walman, or Ghost than Kane, Tarasenko, Motte, Petry, Holl, etc. He's also (at times) given roster spots to veterans when prospects were ready to fill those roles (Berggren, Edvinsson, Kasper). Those are my big complains aside from coaching.

7 minutes ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

There was a report/rumor a few weeks ago that SY had a sizeable deal ready for Stammer this summer, but Illitch kybashed it

There was a rumor that Jacob Trouba refused to come to Detroit via trade. So what? Can't believe everything you read.

Here's a thing I know for sure: It's clear now that giving Stamkos 8+ million would have been a profoundly stupid idea and it was just as stupid a few months ago. I don't care if whether it was YOUR bad idea or Yzerman's, it's still  a really, really, really, really, REALLY stupid idea. So own that one if you want.

Edited December 16, 2024 by kipwinger

[LeftWinger 5,090]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't agree. Imagine if Colorado had started trading away first round draft picks because they'd already drafted Ryan O'Reilly, Matt Duchene, Tyson Barrie, Paul Stastny, Keven Shattenkirk, and Gabriel Landeskog? They'd have missed on MacKinnon, Rantanen, or Makar. Yzerman should absolutely NOT do anything different regarding drafting and developing. It's the one area where our team has most obviously improved. Under Yzerman we've hit on draft picks over and over in all rounds. Look at the success we've had finding talent OUTSIDE the 1st round: Mazur, Wallinder, Buchelnikov, Augustine, Lombardi, Finnie, etc. We need to make our picks until we're obviously a contender and THEN start trading draft picks away.

We need a new coach and we need SY to make better choices regarding the pro-scouting aspect of the game. But even THAT'S an overblown problem because people seem to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater on pro-scouting too. Everyone says our pro-scouting is bad, but I don't really agree. Is there anyone who WOULDN'T have traded Fabbri for De La Rose? Leddy for Walman and picks? Signed Gostisbehere, Sprong, or Perron? Even Compher and Copp? Those guys have bad contracts (which is on SY and not the pro-scouting staff), but they're both useful players. Chiarot too. Even the two trades for Husso and Ned were decent at the time.

The real problem is that SY has made a series of terrible decisions regarding this player pool. He's generally kept crappier players than he's let go. We'd all rather have Perron, Fabbri, Sprong, Walman, or Ghost than Kane, Tarasenko, Motte, Petry, Holl, etc. He's also (at times) given roster spots to veterans when prospects were ready to fill those roles (Berggren, Edvinsson, Kasper). Those are my big complains aside from coaching.

Ok, well, he better be able to sign that YOUNG A+ talent then. Plus bring up more kids. Throw the checkbook at Rantanen in the summer. I am pretty sure Larkin wouldn't be bothered by not being the topped paid guy here if it meant getting to the playoffs and having a shot at a Cup before he's old.

If Chiarot is still here past the TDL, buyout his contract! Just waive Holl again. Gustafsson can be the 7th D.

I'd just like to see him acquire a young top 6 player to have in the core. I don't care if our 4th line makes $11M, our top 6 need to be the best players next season.

Edited December 16, 2024 by LeftWinger