Red Wings Prospects

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 129]

Scott Wheeler ranked his top prospects - 100 players and 20 goalies. I found the Wings prospects ranks but couldnt find the full lists. Anyone have access?

29. Simon Edvinsson

37. Axel Sandin Pellikka

39. Michael Brandsegg-Nygard

49. Nate Danielson

62. Marco Kasper

-------------------------------------------

7. Sebastian Cossa

8. Trey Augustine

 

Edvinsson and Danielson seem low to me. Are there really 28 NHL prospects ahead of Edvinsson? Are there 6 goalies ahead of Cossa?

How would others rank our prospects? 

[Jimmybigrigs69 306]

Wheeler is a doof

Not going to rank edogg, berger, or AJo since theyre joining the team. Or goalies. 

1. ASP

2. Danielson 

3. Kasper

4. MBN

5. Wallinder

6. Mazur

7. Buium

8. Soderblom 

9. Buchnelikov

10. Lombardi

11. Finnie

Everyone else its either too soon to rank, or too hard to say

 

[kipwinger 8,675]

Scott Wheeler has a pretty well known bias toward flashy, east-west forwards, high scoring defensemen, and goalies with draft pedigree. He's almost never willing to change his mind about a prospect once he's pegged them as something he doesn't like. For example, he's been head over heels about Buffalo's drafting since forever and seems completely unwilling to acknowledge that A) Buffalo sucks, and B) all the best parts of their team were acquired by trade (minus Dahlin). So I'm not surprised that he doesn't like our prospects.

Forwards: In the last ten years the only high scoring center to win a Cup was MacKinnon. Otherwise pretty much every Cup champion's 1C is an 80-90 point guy that plays excellent defense. I think Danielson should get there so I'd rate him a lot higher than any "offense only" center on Wheeler's list. Likewise, Stanley Cup winners are full of guys who fit the MBN profile and very few who fit the small, flashy, and skilled profile. So I'd probably rank MBN higher than most of the little high scoring guys that Wheeler no doubt ranked above him.

Defense: In the last ten years no team has won the Cup while giving "offensive minded" defensemen top pair minutes...except Cale Makar. However every Cup winner has a defense full of big, two-way, workhorses that eat a lot of minutes. So I'd rank Edvinsson above all the Zeev Buiums and Zane Pareks of the world. My guess is that Wheeler did not.

Goalies: Here Wheeler tends to favor draft position, despite on-ice results. I think you could make the argument that Wallstedt, Askarov, and Cossa are all pretty much in the same tier. Wheeler has given Wallstedt a pass because he's on a bad team, but seem oblivious to the fact that Grand Rapids was terrible until Cossa took over the net. Askarov's team beat GR in the Calder playoffs, but Askarov didn't play most of that series and Milwaukee was loaded with older, first round, forwards that GR couldn't contain. So the win was hardly to do with Askarov's play, and the loss was hardly to do with Cossa's play. Also...Trey Augustine might be better than all three considering his NCAA and world championship play.

Edited July 18, 2024 by kipwinger

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 129]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Scott Wheeler has a pretty well known bias toward flashy, east-west forwards, high scoring defensemen, and goalies with draft pedigree. He's almost never willing to change his mind about a prospect once he's pegged them as something he doesn't like. For example, he's been head over heels about Buffalo's drafting since forever and seems completely unwilling to acknowledge that A) Buffalo sucks, and B) all the best parts of their team were acquired by trade (minus Dahlin). So I'm not surprised that he doesn't like our prospects.

Forwards: In the last ten years the only high scoring center to win a Cup was MacKinnon. Otherwise pretty much every Cup champion's 1C is an 80-90 point guy that plays excellent defense. I think Danielson should get there so I'd rate him a lot higher than any "offense only" center on Wheeler's list. Likewise, Stanley Cup winners are full of guys who fit the MBN profile and very few who fit the small, flashy, and skilled profile. So I'd probably rank MBN higher than most of the little high scoring guys that Wheeler no doubt ranked above him.

Defense: In the last ten years no team has won the Cup while giving "offensive minded" defensemen top pair minutes...except Cale Makar. However every Cup winner has a defense full of big, two-way, workhorses that eat a lot of minutes. So I'd rank Edvinsson above all the Zeev Buiums and Zane Pareks of the world. My guess is that Wheeler did not.

Goalies: Here Wheeler tends to favor draft position, despite on-ice results. I think you could make the argument that Wallstedt, Askarov, and Cossa are all pretty much in the same tier. Wheeler has given Wallstedt a pass because he's on a bad team, but seem oblivious to the fact that Grand Rapids was terrible until Cossa took over the net. Askarov's team beat GR in the Calder playoffs, but Askarov didn't play most of that series and Milwaukee was loaded with older, first round, forwards that GR couldn't contain. So the win was hardly to do with Askarov's play, and the loss was hardly to do with Cossa's play. Also...Trey Augustine might be better than all three considering his NCAA and world championship play.

I agree with all of this. Im not as high as most on ASP and much higher on our forwards then most maybe biased.

1. Edvinsson

2. Danielson

3. MBN

4. ASP

5. Kasper

6. Mazur

7. Wallinder

Im intrigued also by Buium and Becher.

[kipwinger 8,675]

22 minutes ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

I agree with all of this. Im not as high as most on ASP and much higher on our forwards then most maybe biased.

1. Edvinsson

2. Danielson

3. MBN

4. ASP

5. Kasper

6. Mazur

7. Wallinder

Im intrigued also by Buium and Becher.

I might be able to quibble here or there with some of your rankings, but for the most part I agree and think you're definitely in the ballpark. For better or worse the NHL game is a physical, straight line, dump and chase, puck retrieval type of game. Fans all seem to think that every team should just play like the Russian Five and they'd dominate, but that's not really effective or realistic. There are WAY more guys that find success playing like Zetterberg than there are guys who are successful playing like Datsyuk. Our prospect pool is almost entirely built around guys that play the NHL game and I have a ton of time for it.

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 129]

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I might be able to quibble here or there with some of your rankings, but for the most part I agree and think you're definitely in the ballpark. For better or worse the NHL game is a physical, straight line, dump and chase, puck retrieval type of game. Fans all seem to think that every team should just play like the Russian Five and they'd dominate, but that's not really effective or realistic. There are WAY more guys that find success playing like Zetterberg than there are guys who are successful playing like Datsyuk. Our prospect pool is almost entirely built around guys that play the NHL game and I have a ton of time for it.

My top 3 are pretty well locked my debate was between 4,5,6. With so many having ASP as top 2 its not easy to have him 5 or lower but I might have Kasper/Mazur ahead of him. Hot maybe dumb take.

[town123 212]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5612279/2024/07/16/nhl-prospects-ranking-celebrini-michkov/

His list includes guys with regular playing time in the NHL, so there's that.

 

McGroarty #33 hmmmmm

Edited July 18, 2024 by town123

[town123 212]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5612433/2024/07/17/nhl-goalie-prospects-ranking-wallstedt-askarov/

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

4 hours ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

I agree with all of this. Im not as high as most on ASP and much higher on our forwards then most maybe biased.

1. Edvinsson

2. Danielson

3. MBN

4. ASP

5. Kasper

6. Mazur

7. Wallinder

Im intrigued also by Buium and Becher.

I'm in agreement with you.  I think ASP has enormous BUST potential.  Great - he plays with his head up, has a high hockey IQ, and QB's the power play well.  Fantastic.  But that's all you see in any highlight of him.  POWER PLAY KING.  What about his defense?  He's a runt.  Does he suck at defense?  He's not Fox or Makar, so he better be able to play defense.  Haven't seen that yet.

[Axl Foley 320]

11 hours ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Scott Wheeler ranked his top prospects - 100 players and 20 goalies. I found the Wings prospects ranks but couldnt find the full lists. Anyone have access?

29. Simon Edvinsson

37. Axel Sandin Pellikka

39. Michael Brandsegg-Nygard

49. Nate Danielson

62. Marco Kasper

-------------------------------------------

7. Sebastian Cossa

8. Trey Augustine

 

Edvinsson and Danielson seem low to me. Are there really 28 NHL prospects ahead of Edvinsson? Are there 6 goalies ahead of Cossa?

How would others rank our prospects? 

Those rankings are absurd. How does Detroit have a top 5 rated prospect pool with guys rated in the 30s and 40s?

3 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I'm in agreement with you.  I think ASP has enormous BUST potential.  Great - he plays with his head up, has a high hockey IQ, and QB's the power play well.  Fantastic.  But that's all you see in any highlight of him.  POWER PLAY KING.  What about his defense?  He's a runt.  Does he suck at defense?  He's not Fox or Makar, so he better be able to play defense.  Haven't seen that yet.

So you don't like Brian Rafalski?

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

10 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

Those rankings are absurd. How does Detroit have a top 5 rated prospect pool with guys rated in the 30s and 40s?

So you don't like Brian Rafalski?

Never did.

[Jimmybigrigs69 306]

17 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I'm in agreement with you.  I think ASP has enormous BUST potential.  Great - he plays with his head up, has a high hockey IQ, and QB's the power play well.  Fantastic.  But that's all you see in any highlight of him.  POWER PLAY KING.  What about his defense?  He's a runt.  Does he suck at defense?  He's not Fox or Makar, so he better be able to play defense.  Haven't seen that yet.

ASP will be a much better Dman than Edvinsson

[Axl Foley 320]

8 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Never did.

wrong. multiple outlets had them ranked in the top 5 in the last year. Wheeler himself had them ranked second only months ago.

Edited July 19, 2024 by Axl Foley

[town123 212]

How the hell does Wheeler have Cole Eiserman #16?   Actually the whole list is pretty mucked up.

David Jiricek #12?

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

3 hours ago, town123 said:

How the hell does Wheeler have Cole Eiserman #16?   Actually the whole list is pretty mucked up.

David Jiricek #12?

Jiricek is awesome.  He deserves to be there.  Edvinsson is better than Jiricek, though.  #29 for Edvinsson is a joke.  He's top 5.

[Jimmybigrigs69 306]

1 hour ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Jiricek is awesome.  He deserves to be there.  Edvinsson is better than Jiricek, though.  #29 for Edvinsson is a joke.  He's top 5.

I havent been very impressed by edvinsson

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

2 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

I havent been very impressed by edvinsson

Yah, I dont know why.  He's really slick.  Seider prolly spoiled you.  Give it a few seasons.

[Jimmybigrigs69 306]

21 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Yah, I dont know why.  He's really slick.  Seider prolly spoiled you.  Give it a few seasons.

I will give it a few seasons. He looks like a slow learner. But when he finally impresses ill say so. So far he hasnt done schit. 

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

On 7/19/2024 at 1:24 PM, Axl Foley said:

wrong. multiple outlets had them ranked in the top 5 in the last year. Wheeler himself had them ranked second only months ago.

Im saying i never liked Rafalski

[Axl Foley 320]

11 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Im saying i never liked Rafalski

even worse

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

https://detroithockeynow.com/2024/07/22/red-wings-other-johansson-also-progressing-anton-albert-dan-cleary/

Hopefully this kid turns into a monster.  172 lbs at 6'4"?  Wtf.  Why does our strength and nutrition program suck so bad?

[Jimmybigrigs69 306]

Plante impressing at WJs showcase, with 2 goals and 2 assists in 3 games. Newsy remarked that he was very impressed by Plante's high hockey IQ. There's a possibility this kid could make the USA U20 WJC team, which would be huge for an 18 year old 2nd round pick. 

Jesse Kiiskanen is also the captain of team Finland at the showcase, and has 1 assist in 2 games. However, unlike Plante, who's being used as an offensive weapon, Kiiskanen is playing in all situations. I read somewhere that the Wings met with Kiiskanen several times before the draft, but then Trotz scooped him up a few picks ahead of us. I think there's a strong possibility he was our 3rd round target ahead of Noah Dower-Nilsson. And it speaks to his defense that someone like Trotz wanted him higher than projected...

[Jimmybigrigs69 306]

Also worth mentioning that Trey Augustine has been lights out for team USA, and he's projected to be the best goalie at this years WJC, among all countries. 

Couple that with his stellar freshmen performance at MSU last year, where he got MVP, outstanding rookie, and all-star team recognition, and I'm increasingly convinced this kid will be better than Cossa. 

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

51 minutes ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Also worth mentioning that Trey Augustine has been lights out for team USA, and he's projected to be the best goalie at this years WJC, among all countries. 

Couple that with his stellar freshmen performance at MSU last year, where he got MVP, outstanding rookie, and all-star team recognition, and I'm increasingly convinced this kid will be better than Cossa. 

So what you're trying to say is that we have some good young prospects coming up?  The only issue i have is that we have a lot off "GOOD" prospects.  We need a few of the Datsyuk type prospects that could turn into difference makers.  Having 20 "quality character" guys doesn't really matter.  We need some "scores a shyte load of goals" guys, too.

[Jimmybigrigs69 306]

2 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

So what you're trying to say is that we have some good young prospects coming up?  The only issue i have is that we have a lot off "GOOD" prospects.  We need a few of the Datsyuk type prospects that could turn into difference makers.  Having 20 "quality character" guys doesn't really matter.  We need some "scores a shyte load of goals" guys, too.

"GOOD"

"Quality character"

You talkin about you know who?