2023 Offseason Thread

[AtlantaHotWings 1,092]

and Suter is a Canuck

 

 

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

and Suter is a Canuck

 

 

 

good for him

[bIueadams 776]

Never cared for Suter - and I found it strange how many fans on reddit and hf boards did.

@ 3.25 AAV he was expected to be a middle 6 center for us that could PK and provide a lil offense.

Unlike Kubalik - he did terrible for us compared to what he did for the Hawks - and did not live up to the contract. You can't have 4th line PK centers making $3.2. And he wasn't even a very good 4th line PK center. Why folks were hoping we'd re-sign him is beyond me.

At $1.6 for the Canucks is much better. But if I was a GM I wouldn't even take him for that. He's a bad bottom 6 C. Only way I take Pius Suter as a 4th line C is if Im desperate for one - kinda like the canucks are.

[kipwinger 8,701]

What's everyone's thoughts on Berggren's season? I saw an article in Detroit Hockey Now that said he "needed to be better" or some such thing. I thought it was an odd take considering he was A) a rookie, B) banished to the bottom six with a bunch of puds, and C) still ended the season fifth on the team in goals and ninth in points. I'd also point out that management gave him the directive to play less on the perimeter and if you look back at his highlight package on youtube you'll see that quite a few of his goals were scored in and around the crease.

All in all I thought it was a pretty solid rookie season, but it seems like there are a least a few voices out there saying otherwise. Your thoughts?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

What's everyone's thoughts on Berggren's season? I saw an article in Detroit Hockey Now that said he "needed to be better" or some such thing. I thought it was an odd take considering he was A) a rookie, B) banished to the bottom six with a bunch of puds, and C) still ended the season fifth on the team in goals and ninth in points. I'd also point out that management gave him the directive to play less on the perimeter and if you look back at his highlight package on youtube you'll see that quite a few of his goals were scored in and around the crease.

All in all I thought it was a pretty solid rookie season, but it seems like there are a least a few voices out there saying otherwise. Your thoughts?

“*insert any wings player here* needs to be better” is basically a truism

Relatively speaking Bergrren was Fine. Fell off a small hill later in the season though. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

What's everyone's thoughts on Berggren's season? I saw an article in Detroit Hockey Now that said he "needed to be better" or some such thing. I thought it was an odd take considering he was A) a rookie, B) banished to the bottom six with a bunch of puds, and C) still ended the season fifth on the team in goals and ninth in points. I'd also point out that management gave him the directive to play less on the perimeter and if you look back at his highlight package on youtube you'll see that quite a few of his goals were scored in and around the crease.

All in all I thought it was a pretty solid rookie season, but it seems like there are a least a few voices out there saying otherwise. Your thoughts?

He's weak.  His center needs to make him better, ad he doesnt make his center better.  3rd line project.  Kasper and Ras will be our top 2 LWs.

[bIueadams 776]

Berg is my #1 prospect to watch this year. IMO he's the guy who's gonna take a huge step forward.

Last year he was on pace for 34 pts getting 3rd line minutes. I'm predicting 45-50 pts this season. Got his beak wet last year, other teams won't be targeting him as a top guy, and he should see increased usage. 

[kipwinger 8,701]

11 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

He's weak.  His center needs to make him better, ad he doesnt make his center better.  3rd line project.  Kasper and Ras will be our top 2 LWs.

This is another instance in which I don't think we're seeing the same things. I saw Berggren making plays all over the ice that his linemates couldn't finish, not the other way around. At one point his linemates were Zadina and Veleno, there was no chance either of those dudes were finishing the plays he set up.

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

This is another instance in which I don't think we're seeing the same things. I saw Berggren making plays all over the ice that his linemates couldn't finish, not the other way around. At one point his linemates were Zadina and Veleno, there was no chance either of those dudes were finishing the plays he set up.

Jonas clearly just looks at stats. He sees 'from Sweden, 5'11"', and makes the conclusion that he is a weakling Euro who cannot make anything happen on the ice. Just like he reads that Raymond spends the summer in his home country, therefore could not possibly be hitting up a gym there. 

[kipwinger 8,701]

I'm looking for the article now, but I recall reading somewhere that he was up to around 200 lbs now, and that his lower body strength in particular had developed a great deal. If that's true then he's made considerable headway on the two improvements the organization asked him to make (the other being to play less on the perimeter). I do think that he needs to show he can play a solid defensive game if he wants to play on a scoring line, but his defensive metrics already grade out at about league average. He seems to be responsive to coaching and IMO it's not surprising that the guy's offense plateaued a bit as he focused on playing a responsible game. But 14 goals as a rookie is still pretty impressive to me.

 

[ely s 458]

53 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm looking for the article now, but I recall reading somewhere that he was up to around 200 lbs now, and that his lower body strength in particular had developed a great deal. If that's true then he's made considerable headway on the two improvements the organization asked him to make (the other being to play less on the perimeter). I do think that he needs to show he can play a solid defensive game if he wants to play on a scoring line, but his defensive metrics already grade out at about league average. He seems to be responsive to coaching and IMO it's not surprising that the guy's offense plateaued a bit as he focused on playing a responsible game. But 14 goals as a rookie is still pretty impressive to me.

 

https://www.nhl.com/player/jonatan-berggren-8481013

197lb it says, seems like he ate plenty of sweets and burgers because weakling euros don´t train at home

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'm looking for the article now, but I recall reading somewhere that he was up to around 200 lbs now, and that his lower body strength in particular had developed a great deal. If that's true then he's made considerable headway on the two improvements the organization asked him to make (the other being to play less on the perimeter). I do think that he needs to show he can play a solid defensive game if he wants to play on a scoring line, but his defensive metrics already grade out at about league average. He seems to be responsive to coaching and IMO it's not surprising that the guy's offense plateaued a bit as he focused on playing a responsible game. But 14 goals as a rookie is still pretty impressive to me.

 

It's put up or shut up time for Berggren this year if he wants to slot in top 6.  We're not getting anything out of Berggren so far in his career that we didn't get out of Mantha or Bertuzzi.  I'm not saying he's Filip Zadina, because he's noticeably better than Zadina.  But I'm also not saying he's Vrana either.  He doesn't score by himself or create scoring for other players yet, so until that happens - HE'S WEAK.  I think you're going to like what Compher, Champ, Kostin, and Fischer bring to the table this season a lot more than what Berggren brings to the table.  Today's NHL, for 99% of the players, is about out hustling, out hitting, and outworking the other players.  Being more manly than the other guy, in short.  And that's why all of our Holland draft picks have fizzled.   Because they are all beta males.  They get punched in the face and ask for another.  The guys Yzerman brought in during UFA do the punching or hit back at the very least.  I'm hoping Berggren claws his way into the Larkin/Kasper/Lombardi/Danielson/Rasmussen/Debrincat/Raymond tier of players, but I'm not expecting it.  I'm expecting him to focus so hard on his defensive game that he turns into an annual 20-25 pt producer on the 3rd line.  And I'm not going to have a problem with that.  The team needs guys that can play throughout the lineup during injuries, but don't break the bank.  Berggen at 1.5 mil a season to play 3rd line LW minutes is just fine with me.

[Akakabuto 1,833]

Burgeren was 22 years old less than a month ago. Plenty of development left to be done. Kid’s a stud. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

28 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Burgeren was 22 years old less than a month ago. Plenty of development left to be done. Kid’s a stud. 

I hope ao.  I have that zit faced rslur's jersey (the wrong one now) and will look like a total fslur wearing it if he stinks / a real nanochad if he tears it up.

[bIueadams 776]

3 hours ago, ely s said:

https://www.nhl.com/player/jonatan-berggren-8481013

197lb it says, seems like he ate plenty of sweets and burgers because weakling euros don´t train at home

Now hes definately breaking out. Especially too cause his poop linemates Z and V are gone.

[LeftWinger 5,075]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

Now hes definately breaking out. Especially too cause his poop linemates Z and V are gone.

V not gone....yet. I would package him in a deal for Boeser though. If it was possible.

[AtlantaHotWings 1,092]

14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

V not gone....yet. I would package him in a deal for Boeser though. If it was possible.

Speaking of V-boy....https://octopusthrower.com/2023/08/13/detroit-red-wings-appear-joe-veleno/

[LeftWinger 5,075]

33 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Speaking of V-boy....https://octopusthrower.com/2023/08/13/detroit-red-wings-appear-joe-veleno/

I say just trade him. We have players that are going to pass him (soon) on the depth chart. Get something of need for him. I'd package him and Fabbri for something. 

[TLGTrico 648]

I have three very simple wants for this coming season.

Raymond doesn't play a single game outside the top six unless he does something boneheaded to deserve a demotion

Berggren doesn't play a single game outside the top nine unless he does something boneheaded to deserve a demotion

Edvinsson plays no more than 20 games in Grand rapids

Edited August 15, 2023 by TLGTrico

[bIueadams 776]

1 hour ago, TLGTrico said:

I have three very simple wants for this coming season.

Raymond doesn't play a single game outside the top six unless he does something boneheaded to deserve a demotion

Berggren doesn't play a single game outside the top nine unless he does something boneheaded to deserve a demotion

Edvinsson plays no more than 20 games in Grand rapids

Johnny Bergers will challenge r-slur raymond for his spot this year.

[bIueadams 776]

Offseason recap:

Out: Kubalik, Suter, Zadina, Erne, Chiasson, Hagg, Oesterle, Lindstrom, Nedeljokvic, Hellberg

In: Debrincat, Compher, Sprong, Kostin, Fischer, Ghostbear, Petry, Holl, Reimer, Lyon

Another round of swapping junk for upgraded tradeable pieces 

[bIueadams 776]

Now that Bergeron and Krejci have both retired, I don't think the Bruins look as bad as most seem to think they will be.

Marchand - Zacha - Pastranak
DeBrusk - Frederic - Coyle
Lucic - Geekie - JVR
Greer - Boqvist - Brown

Lindholm - McAvoy
Grzelcyk - Carlo
Forbort - Shattenkirk
Zboril

Ullmark
Swayman

The forward lines took some hits, but that's still a large nasty forward group to play against. The centers Zacha, Frederic, and Geekie, are young and could surprise some folks. The 4th line is a total mystery and could be bad or could be good. 

The defense is still dope and deep. And they have 2 goalies that can shut the door.

B's will move down the rankings, but they will still be a post season competitor IMO. I see them doing what the Caps are doing and trying to reload on the fly like Holland tried and failed to do. But just because Holland flubbed it, I don't think it's not possible for either team.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

9 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Now that Bergeron and Krejci have both retired, I don't think the Bruins look as bad as most seem to think they will be.

Marchand - Zacha - Pastranak
DeBrusk - Frederic - Coyle
Lucic - Geekie - JVR
Greer - Boqvist - Brown

Lindholm - McAvoy
Grzelcyk - Carlo
Forbort - Shattenkirk
Zboril

Ullmark
Swayman

The forward lines took some hits, but that's still a large nasty forward group to play against. The centers Zacha, Frederic, and Geekie, are young and could surprise some folks. The 4th line is a total mystery and could be bad or could be good. 

The defense is still dope and deep. And they have 2 goalies that can shut the door.

B's will move down the rankings, but they will still be a post season competitor IMO. I see them doing what the Caps are doing and trying to reload on the fly like Holland tried and failed to do. But just because Holland flubbed it, I don't think it's not possible for either team.

I agree with you.  This team is ditching DECLINING vets and replacing them with RISING draft picks.  That's a good thing to be doing when you have a good core, as you've pointed out.  The Red Wings are replacing failed draft picks with declining vets.  I get that Yzerman's guys might not all be ready, but he's making it so there isnt any room even if they are.

[LeftWinger 5,075]

18 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I agree with you.  This team is ditching DECLINING vets and replacing them with RISING draft picks.  That's a good thing to be doing when you have a good core, as you've pointed out.  The Red Wings are replacing failed draft picks with declining vets.  I get that Yzerman's guys might not all be ready, but he's making it so there isnt any room even if they are.

Good! That means Ottawa can have a mid-20's pick this year and we'll keep our Mid-teens.

[LeftWinger 5,075]

Anybody watching the Hossa Farewell Game?