2022 Draft / UFA

[redw1ngs 149]

1 hour ago, bIueadams said:

Guess Edvinsson is going to GR afterall

Walman is injured. Edvinsson has to beat out Hagg and Oesterle.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Guess Edvinsson is going to GR afterall

it wouldn't be the end of the world. unless he is beating out one of Seider, Chiarot, Maatta, or Hronek to earn a spot in the top 4, I would rather see him play 20+ min a night with some PP and PK in GR vs. less than 15 min a night in Detroit.

[bIueadams 776]

2 hours ago, redw1ngs said:

Walman is injured. Edvinsson has to beat out Hagg and Oesterle.

Oesterle's family issues kept him away from the rink last season. We might be seeing a rejuvinated man in him this year. The kind of regular that plays PP and PK and all situations like he did in chicago and Arizona. 

Hagg wrecks shop. Very physical and tough to play against. You'll like him. 

That competition is tougher than u think. Both Hagg and OOST are guys who can hold down regular duties. Eddog is going to have to Seider lvl wow us. And he wont. Too young n raw still. Never played NA ice.

Edited August 11, 2022 by bIueadams

[bIueadams 776]

3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

it wouldn't be the end of the world. unless he is beating out one of Seider, Chiarot, Maatta, or Hronek to earn a spot in the top 4, I would rather see him play 20+ min a night with some PP and PK in GR vs. less than 15 min a night in Detroit.

Maata wont be hard to beat

[redw1ngs 149]

7 hours ago, bIueadams said:

Oesterle's family issues kept him away from the rink last season. We might be seeing a rejuvinated man in him this year. The kind of regular that plays PP and PK and all situations like he did in chicago and Arizona. 

Hagg wrecks shop. Very physical and tough to play against. You'll like him. 

That competition is tougher than u think. Both Hagg and OOST are guys who can hold down regular duties. Eddog is going to have to Seider lvl wow us. And he wont. Too young n raw still. Never played NA ice.

I do like Hagg and would prefer him over Oesterle. 

I think Edvinsson makes it but would be fine with Hagg-Lindstrom 3rd pair to.

[LeftWinger 5,065]

I have a feeling, this is how it will shake out, and yes, I do believe Edvinsson will start in GR, which is a good thing. Remember, even Seider played a season there.

Chiarot - Seider

Haag - Hronek

Maatta - Oesterle

Lindstrom

 

Walman and Pysyk injured and Kampfer to GR.

Up front I believe Smith is out. Once Zadina signs, that'll be 13 forwards, with a 14th spot up for grabs. I believe that will go to one of Berggren, Veleno or Andreasson. Sodorblom has a chance, but I am betting they want him seeing more minutes in GR. 

I apologize, I didn't want to turn this into a Lines or Roster thread, just adding to the debate of who will be our D to start the season.

[town123 212]

I'd rather see Eddog in GR playing major minutes as well.   Also wouldn't mind seeing a Berggren- Andreasson- Sodorblom line leaving Veleno and Zadina in Detroit.   Has to be the last chance for Zadina, but I'm just worried about the lack of ice time they're both going to get.

[kipwinger 8,675]

2 hours ago, town123 said:

I'd rather see Eddog in GR playing major minutes as well.   Also wouldn't mind seeing a Berggren- Andreasson- Sodorblom line leaving Veleno and Zadina in Detroit.   Has to be the last chance for Zadina, but I'm just worried about the lack of ice time they're both going to get.

Zadina, in particular, was given all the ice time a guy could ever want last season. Lots of games in the top six. Played with Larkin, Bert, Fabbri, Raymond, Vrana, Suter. Power play time. Favorable zone starts. His issue isn't lack of opportunity. His issue is that he blows. He's Mikael Samuelsson 2.0.

I'm not trying to air you out or anything, I've just noticed this narrative emerging that Zadina needs more opportunity to succeed. But he's had the opportunity and has been routinely outplayed by guys with the same chances (or less). This year he'll probably start on the 3rd line with Suter and Kubalik against inferior competition and given 2nd powerplay duties. If he fails to make an impact I presume he'll be traded/not qualified.

[town123 212]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Zadina, in particular, was given all the ice time a guy could ever want last season. Lots of games in the top six. Played with Larkin, Bert, Fabbri, Raymond, Vrana, Suter. Power play time. Favorable zone starts. His issue isn't lack of opportunity. His issue is that he blows. He's Mikael Samuelsson 2.0.

I'm not trying to air you out or anything, I've just noticed this narrative emerging that Zadina needs more opportunity to succeed. But he's had the opportunity and has been routinely outplayed by guys with the same chances (or less). This year he'll probably start on the 3rd line with Suter and Kubalik against inferior competition and given 2nd powerplay duties. If he fails to make an impact I presume he'll be traded/not qualified.

It's all good.   I'm not a Zadina fan at all.   Lalonde will be his last chance to improve as sometimes a new coach can tell him the same things he's already heard and finally listen.   Pretty sure Stevie Y and staff know better if the kid's brain is functioning properly or some other reason he's not grasping things.

 

I think there should be a DRW rule that states:  If you draft a player and he sucks, you must trade a 1st round Holland/Edmonton player back to the Wings in exchange.     Only fair.   

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

You have to be careful with this XYZ player sucks thing that LGW posters have.  Sometimes a player gets completely neutered when they get to the NHL, and theyre asked to do things they havent done their whole lives (play defense against the best players in the world).  STEVE YZERMAN had to learn how to do this, remember.  It takes time.  I see guys like Zadina and Ras willing to buy in to the defense/team first mentality, and I like it.  Other posters want the neutered dog to still produce a lot of puppies.  That being said, if youre supposed to score goals and you dont, you better play damn good defense/win lots of face offs/board battles (Ras).  We havent gotten that grit in Zadina YET.  So he definitely needs to give Saul Goyzerman a reason to keep him around THIS year.

[Akakabuto 1,831]

Everybody gets a second chance now that Blashill is gone. Even if they are lazy and sucks. 

[LeftWinger 5,065]

Zadina had plenty of opportunities. What he has now is a chance to see if he can thrive under a new coaching staff. If he again fails to at least fill some nets, then it may be time for a scenery change.

[mackel 737]

16 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You have to be careful with this XYZ player sucks thing that LGW posters have.  Sometimes a player gets completely neutered when they get to the NHL, and theyre asked to do things they havent done their whole lives (play defense against the best players in the world).  STEVE YZERMAN had to learn how to do this, remember.  It takes time.  I see guys like Zadina and Ras willing to buy in to the defense/team first mentality, and I like it.  Other posters want the neutered dog to still produce a lot of puppies.  That being said, if youre supposed to score goals and you dont, you better play damn good defense/win lots of face offs/board battles (Ras).  We havent gotten that grit in Zadina YET.  So he definitely needs to give Saul Goyzerman a reason to keep him around THIS year.

That's not a remotely reasonable comparison.  Yzerman was an offensive dynamo who mid career changed his game to a more team oriented style.  It's no coincidence this happend post knee injuries and in the back half of his career.  

Zadina on the other hand has been a  replacement level player for 160ish games... to compare the two is beyond basic.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

26 minutes ago, mackel said:

That's not a remotely reasonable comparison.  Yzerman was an offensive dynamo who mid career changed his game to a more team oriented style.  It's no coincidence this happend post knee injuries and in the back half of his career.  

Zadina on the other hand has been a  replacement level player for 160ish games... to compare the two is beyond basic.

im not comparing both of them as whole players, and you know that.  Im making a comparison only on offensive minded only vs 2 way player, and making a point thay not every player is going to be able to do that.  Most guys are doing the spoiled brat thing and requesting trades when things dont go perfect.  Zadina has been a good teammate and played how and where he's been asked to play.  Im not saying that should give him an infinite leash, but it should at least give him until he's 24/25.  He had 2 seasons worth of games in 3 years now.  We need players in this range to take the next steps.  Very few players are going to enter the nhl and light it up immediately like Mo and Raymond.

[kipwinger 8,675]

37 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

im not comparing both of them as whole players, and you know that.  Im making a comparison only on offensive minded only vs 2 way player, and making a point thay not every player is going to be able to do that.  Most guys are doing the spoiled brat thing and requesting trades when things dont go perfect.  Zadina has been a good teammate and played how and where he's been asked to play.  Im not saying that should give him an infinite leash, but it should at least give him until he's 24/25.  He had 2 seasons worth of games in 3 years now.  We need players in this range to take the next steps.  Very few players are going to enter the nhl and light it up immediately like Mo and Raymond.

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I have some issue with the bolded. You're making it seem like he's been dealt a bad hand and he's out there making the best of it. But that's not really the case. He's been dealt a pretty good hand (top six, offensive zone starts, powerplay time) and consistently done nothing with it. He's never had to earn opportunity in the same way that Joe Veleno (for instance) has. So of course he's been a good teammate/had a good attitude.

Look at how everyone talks about him. When he sucks the entire conversation revolves around "how can we change the entire lineup of the team to get Zadina going". It's never "Zadina needs to work his way up from the fourth line through his play". The same thing used to happen with Brendan Smith. Without a hint of irony his slappies all thought he should play with Lidstrom/Kronwall to "get him going" without ever considering whether it was good for the team to have a loser on their top pairing.

[bIueadams 776]

Zadina just plain sucks. I dont care what his oppurtunities or coaches have been. If youre billed as a top 5 draft pick sniper, you should probably be able to at least hit the net. He doesnt do this. 

His offensive instincts are literally cringe level. Its like he has no idea how to setup a play or pick a shot. And when he does finally find a decent oppurtunity his execution is downright bad. 

Sundqcist is a more valuable player at this current moment in time.

Give him the 2nd chance under lalonde, but im not holding my breath that this was blashills fault on this one. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 8/12/2022 at 9:41 AM, kipwinger said:

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I have some issue with the bolded. You're making it seem like he's been dealt a bad hand and he's out there making the best of it. But that's not really the case. He's been dealt a pretty good hand (top six, offensive zone starts, powerplay time) and consistently done nothing with it. He's never had to earn opportunity in the same way that Joe Veleno (for instance) has. So of course he's been a good teammate/had a good attitude.

Look at how everyone talks about him. When he sucks the entire conversation revolves around "how can we change the entire lineup of the team to get Zadina going". It's never "Zadina needs to work his way up from the fourth line through his play". The same thing used to happen with Brendan Smith. Without a hint of irony his slappies all thought he should play with Lidstrom/Kronwall to "get him going" without ever considering whether it was good for the team to have a loser on their top pairing.

10-4.  One more year, then call it a sunk cost and dump his ass.

[F.Michael 4,590]

On 8/12/2022 at 9:50 AM, LeftWinger said:

Zadina had plenty of opportunities. What he has now is a chance to see if he can thrive under a new coaching staff. If he again fails to at least fill some nets, then it may be time for a scenery change.

Like a cornfield in Iowa with a hole in the ground already dug change .....

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

This should be Zadina's last year to show a massive improvement.

[bIueadams 776]

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This should be Zadina's last year to show a massive improvement.

Id say this is why Mackel and I have been calling for selling him since he landed in GR. There's so much wrong with him that theres no realistic way it can all be fixed in the frame needed. 

Hes a car that showed up to the shop with a seized engine, extensive body damage, and a burned out interior. And the customer wants it road ready by next weekend. My advice: scrap it for parts and buy a new car. This project isnt worth yours or my time.

Theres just too much to fix with him for this ever to work out. SY should have sold him to the highest bidder the day he was hired.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

17 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Like a cornfield in Iowa with a hole in the ground already dug change .....

i don't get it

6 minutes ago, bIueadams said:

Id say this is why Mackel and I have been calling for selling him since he landed in GR. There's so much wrong with him that theres no realistic way it can all be fixed in the frame needed. 

Hes a car that showed up to the shop with a seized engine, extensive body damage, and a burned out interior. And the customer wants it road ready by next weekend. My advice: scrap it for parts and buy a new car. This project isnt worth yours or my time.

Theres just too much to fix with him for this ever to work out. SY should have sold him to the highest bidder the day he was hired.

if he can get to 40 points this season. I would consider that progress. as long as there is improvement. if he is stagnant or regresses, its time to move on.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

i don't get it

if he can get to 40 points this season. I would consider that progress. as long as there is improvement. if he is stagnant or regresses, its time to move on.

problem with Zadina is that he doesnt drive offense in either end.  He doesnt cause turnovers / create take aways - he plays defense but only the type where he skates back and TRIES to get in the way.  This isnt effective.  He's not aggressive or tenacious on defense.  Being those doesnt mean you have to be a tough guy.  It means you have to have a willpower to get the puck from the opposition at all costs and not stop driving your legs and going after the puck until you do.  Zadina just skates until he is in the defensive zone and coasts to a position where he thinks he's going to stop a pass.  And in the offensive zone, the same is true.  Zadina does not drive creativity.  He skates until he hits the blue line and then coasts to a position where he thinks he can accept a pass to shoot.  That might be acceptable if he had a high finishing rate like Nyquist.  But his finishing rate is terrible.  The best thing the team could have done is to room Zadina with Larkin and have him immitate Larkin's every move for 2 years.  Larkin plays the exact opposite style of hockey that Zadina does.  Does Larkins speed help?  Yah.  But it can bed done with good speed instead of exceptional speed, as well.  Zetterberg is a good example of that.  Zadina has too good of a frame, time in the organization, NHL experience, and willingness to help the club to just discard right now.  But if he comes out of the 22-23 season with 8 goals and 15 pts, then Detroit needs to make way for some of their peospects (Soderblom, Dower-Nielsen, Niederbach, Berggren, Mazur, Kasper, etc.).  #11 has til mid February to put up 30 pts, imo.  He will be trade bait if he stagnates again.

[mackel 737]

8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

problem with Zadina is that he doesnt drive offense in either end.  He doesnt cause turnovers / create take aways - he plays defense but only the type where he skates back and TRIES to get in the way.  This isnt effective.  He's not aggressive or tenacious on defense.  Being those doesnt mean you have to be a tough guy.  It means you have to have a willpower to get the puck from the opposition at all costs and not stop driving your legs and going after the puck until you do.  Zadina just skates until he is in the defensive zone and coasts to a position where he thinks he's going to stop a pass.  And in the offensive zone, the same is true.  Zadina does not drive creativity.  He skates until he hits the blue line and then coasts to a position where he thinks he can accept a pass to shoot.  That might be acceptable if he had a high finishing rate like Nyquist.  But his finishing rate is terrible.  The best thing the team could have done is to room Zadina with Larkin and have him immitate Larkin's every move for 2 years.  Larkin plays the exact opposite style of hockey that Zadina does.  Does Larkins speed help?  Yah.  But it can bed done with good speed instead of exceptional speed, as well.  Zetterberg is a good example of that.  Zadina has too good of a frame, time in the organization, NHL experience, and willingness to help the club to just discard right now.  But if he comes out of the 22-23 season with 8 goals and 15 pts, then Detroit needs to make way for some of their peospects (Soderblom, Dower-Nielsen, Niederbach, Berggren, Mazur, Kasper, etc.).  #11 has til mid February to put up 30 pts, imo.  He will be trade bait if he stagnates again.

No matter what happens this should be his last year... if he's terrible trade/waive him... if he has a "dead cat bounce" season trade him for the best offer likely a 3rd rounder. 

This guy is not a top 6 caliber player on any decent NHL team. (Period)

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, mackel said:

No matter what happens this should be his last year... if he's terrible trade/waive him... if he has a "dead cat bounce" season trade him for the best offer likely a 3rd rounder. 

This guy is not a top 6 caliber player on any decent NHL team. (Period)

If he has 35 pts in 55 games, you trade him?

[bIueadams 776]

15 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

problem with Zadina is that he doesnt drive offense in either end.  He doesnt cause turnovers / create take aways - he plays defense but only the type where he skates back and TRIES to get in the way.  This isnt effective.  He's not aggressive or tenacious on defense.  Being those doesnt mean you have to be a tough guy.  It means you have to have a willpower to get the puck from the opposition at all costs and not stop driving your legs and going after the puck until you do.  Zadina just skates until he is in the defensive zone and coasts to a position where he thinks he's going to stop a pass.  And in the offensive zone, the same is true.  Zadina does not drive creativity.  He skates until he hits the blue line and then coasts to a position where he thinks he can accept a pass to shoot.  That might be acceptable if he had a high finishing rate like Nyquist.  But his finishing rate is terrible.  The best thing the team could have done is to room Zadina with Larkin and have him immitate Larkin's every move for 2 years.  Larkin plays the exact opposite style of hockey that Zadina does.  Does Larkins speed help?  Yah.  But it can bed done with good speed instead of exceptional speed, as well.  Zetterberg is a good example of that.  Zadina has too good of a frame, time in the organization, NHL experience, and willingness to help the club to just discard right now.  But if he comes out of the 22-23 season with 8 goals and 15 pts, then Detroit needs to make way for some of their peospects (Soderblom, Dower-Nielsen, Niederbach, Berggren, Mazur, Kasper, etc.).  #11 has til mid February to put up 30 pts, imo.  He will be trade bait if he stagnates again.

One of your better evaluations.

The root of the problem is Zadina does not have a mind for hockey. Datsyuk used to back check into the defensive zone and prey on unsuspecting puck carriers. And his ability to stick handle allowed him to literally strip these ppl of the puck. Zadina has that same ability. You see flashes of it. When he finds himself in the right position he wrecks havoc. The difference is, datsyuk found himself in those situations often because he could think the game better than most. Zadina rarely does cause hes a total R-slur. Hes not computing the game at a high level. Hes routinely making poor decisions and misreading plays. This isnt a high level player.