2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

[LeftWinger 5,090]

I'd sign Suter as soon as possible. Then Koekkoek. 

Suter-Seider

Koekkoek-Hronek

Cholowski-Stecher

Looks pretty good for letting the others develop. I'm not even sure Cholowski should be there, he hasn't shown he's earned a starting spot. I'm not sure if I'd slot Dekeyser in there either, but being the 6th, you can experiment with it a bit. Suter probably won't come here, I'm sure he'll have some contenders calling him. He went to Minnesota to win, Minnesota failed him, now his days are numbered, I imagine he'd take a small contract to win a Cup within 2-3 years. Dang where's @centcougar when he's needed?

[krsmith17 7,191]

24 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Bruh, READ

I did read. You were advocating Gelinas to play with Seider. Some mentioned Suter as a player to target to play with Seider. You think that is dumb, because he's old. I say it's smart because he's a better player, despite being "old"...

25 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I want players who can potentially grow with this team into the future: Stecher, Namestnikov, Djoos, Brome, Oleksiak, McCabe, Oesterle
Not: Filppula, Staal, Greiss, Suter, Martinez, Edler, Goligoski

"Suter is good" is not gonna change my mind. I do not favor old players for a rebuilding team. Rather spin and gamble on anyone younger.

Fact is, not a single one of those players are young enough to "potentially grow with this team into the future"... They're all older than Mantha (traded), and Bertuzzi (possibly going to be traded). If you want to add young players to build around our current and still growing core, that needs to be done via trade, not free agency. Free agency is meant for stop-gaps, and that's exactly what a Suter or Martinez would be, much like Staal (trade) and Ryan (signing) last year. 

[WRusco 43]

34 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

 

Bruh, READ

I want players who can potentially grow with this team into the future: Stecher, Namestnikov, Djoos, Brome, Oleksiak, McCabe, Oesterle
Not: Filppula, Staal, Greiss, Suter, Martinez, Edler, Goligoski

"Suter is good" is not gonna change my mind. I do not favor old players for a rebuilding team. Rather spin and gamble on anyone younger.

I see a 2, possibly 3 yr window of bringing in the young players. 

I want to see Choloski, Lindstrom, Smith, Svetchnikov, McIssac, and others given a shot to prove if they can make it, or move on.

I don't feel the need to bring in older, over paid vets.

Edited July 14, 2021 by WRusco

[F.Michael 4,590]

53 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I was unaware of this before today, but apparently there's been rumblings over the years that Suter was a lockerroom cancer in Minnesota.

One woman who claims to have interned for the Wild said that Parise was mostly okay, but that Suter was extremely entitled.

Here's what one Bruins fan said:

Sounds like Parise got the cut because of bad contract and poor play. Suter because they wanted to free up another protection spot for another Dman, who wasn't part of the old boys club problems they've had.

Truth.

Nobody cares about Minnesota.

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Well your reading comprehension isn't very good because you apparently missed the entire part where I said Gelinas is an an experiment and you still have go out and sign someone else like a Suter or someone younger.

This was never Gelinas v. Suter. This was Suter + Gelinas v. Someone else + Gelinas.

It makes no difference how you break it down, who vs. who... You wanted to sign Gelinas, but not Suter. It doesn't make sense. One is a 7th defenseman, the other is a top 3 defenseman. Again, we don't need a Biega replacement. We need a Nemeth / Merrill replacement, ideally an upgrade. Suter would be that.

21 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Oh boy you should have warned Yzerman about this before he signed Yanni Gourde and Tyler Johnson

What does Gourde or Johnson have to do with anything? I'm sure Yzerman would have liked to warn Yzerman about the Johnson contract...

Yzerman has stated several times that he has no interest in adding players older than the current core to long-term contracts. He's going to continue doing what he did last offseason, and add a couple more short-term, low cap vets in free agency, and acquire younger talent (or draft picks) in trades.

25 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Oh and how long is it again before you think we're ready to compete?

Compete for what? A playoff spot? 2-3 seasons. A Stanley Cup? 4-5 seasons, if everything goes right...

34 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Yeah but in 3 years Jake McCabe will be 30 and basically retired at that point apparently lol. Which is why 36 year olds are better

Yeah, my comprehension isn't very good...

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Bill Guerin and Ian Cole have both alluded in the past to the Wild lockerroom not being a positive environment. My guess is Leopold and Guerin were all too tired of Suter and Parise's attitudes.

There's also the recapture penalty to consider. If the Wild buyout Parise and piss off what sounds like an already troublesome Suter, they risk him retiring earlier than expected and having to pay on his contract regardless.

Also speculation that Guerin asked Suter to waive his NMC for the expansion and Suter told him no lol

 

That long post sure explains why the Wild were so useless in the playoffs all these years. Yikes.

No wonder he didn't come here. There would be expectations. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I believe even Guerin said something about his lockerroom being a "country club".

I think I'd rather re-sign Marc Staal than import Ryan Suter and have seider learn from him that cancer at this point...

This is epic karma for Parise and Suter. They spurned the franchises that drafted them to go be the big dicks together in Minny. But it turns out their egos were bigger than their dicks. I love this offseason.

Maybe my LOLs will stop when Parise and Suter both sign for league minimum in Tampa...

Can't blame them though...I mean - who doesn't like a country club atmosphere where everyone caters to you?

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Again - I don't know how you're not comprehending this - I wanted to sign Gelinas AND a top4 Dman. Not just Gelinas. I just don't perfer Suter for that top4 spot. You been drinking again today?

No, I totally get it. You prefer s***tier players because they're younger.

15 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Free agents. But apparently Gourde and Johnson we're just stop gap signings cause all free agents are stop gaps now.

Strawman.

I've never said all free agents are stop gaps. Most rebuilding teams signing free agents, are just that though. Yzerman has said he's not looking to sign players older than the current core, long term.

19 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Guess who'll still most likely be around in 4-5 seasons? McCabe and Oleksiak.

Sure. So what about Cholowski, McIsaac, Sebrango, Johansson, Wallinder, Viro, etc... Maybe we take another LHD in the 1st round this year. For me (and Yzerman), I'd prefer stop gaps until some of those guys are ready. DeKeyser will be done after this season. Sutter (hypothetically) in two seasons...

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Jamie Oleksiak is a s***ty player now? I don't think he's prime Suter sure, but he fits into our timeline better than Suter does. Suter's not gonna wanna be on a rebuilding team anyway, whereas a younger player may actually have interest in an up and coming team where they can get playing time.

Yes, Suter is better than Oleksiak, despite being 8 years older. Are you arguing that?

No, Oleksiak isn't prime Suter. Nor is he current Suter.

7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Suter isn't a realistic option for us or him. And he drama-ed his way into being bought out. But by all means you want Seider to learn from that.

I'm sure you would have said the same about Ryan last offseason. You don't know what Suter wants.

If the rumors are true, stay away. That's for Yzerman to determine.

8 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Here you go

Nowhere did I say ALL free agents are stop gaps. But for a rebuilding team, that's what makes sense. But by all means, keep ignoring everything Yzerman has said regarding free agency / trade targets...

11 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

If they can't beat out Oleskiak or McCabe for a roster spot in a few years then they don't deserve that roster spot.

I'm sure at least a couple of them will be better than those guys in a few years. If you have confidence in any of your prospects, you probably shouldn't lock up mediocre players long term. Otherwise you have another Dekeyser situation. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

For like the 5th time now, NO, lmao

SUTER OLD. OLD BAD. SIGN YOUNG.

Hopefully that makes it through your wet brain at some point here.

"No, I totally get it. You prefer s***tier players because they're younger"...

4 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

"Free agency is for stop gaps"

Your words fella

Context being the Detroit Red Wings, a rebuilding team.

5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I don't see why we can't sign more young stop gaps like Stecher and Namestnikov. I'm not interested in more Filppula's.

We can definitely sign more mediocre younger players. No one's saying we can't.

Suter isn't Filppula. Not even close.

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

"Suter is better than Oleksiak, despite being 8 years older. Are you arguing that?"

If understand my point, why are you continuing to ask me questions like this? It's Wednesday and you shouldn't be day drinking this early.

I'm just really confused as to why you'd prefer to sign s***tier players...

7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Yet, here you are arguing with me up and done about my preference for younger players....

You're the one that started the argument about my preference for better players...

[Dabura 12,228]

19 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Isnt Hymen UFA?

Yeah. I read your tweet as meaning "They were planning on trading Hyman and replacing him with Bertuzzi," but I realize now that you probably meant "They'd have Hyman and Bertuzzi for the rest of the season while knowing they'd likely be losing Hyman via free agency."

17 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

It's Wednesday and you shouldn't be day drinking this early.

Hump day is best day drinking weekday. Now you're just making s*** up.

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Cause they're younger

This is now what the 7th time I've had to say it?

Younger > Better. Got it. More GM's should think like you. 

16 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I've told you for several pages now I prefer younger players to Suter. "Suter is good" isn't going to change my mind there. But I bet you're gonna keep trying...

Nah. I'm done trying. You're a lost cause.

[Dabura 12,228]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

That long post sure explains why the Wild were so useless in the playoffs all these years. Yikes.

No wonder he didn't come here. There would be expectations. 

[laughs in Brent Burns]

[marcaractac 3,963]

26 minutes ago, Dabura said:

[laughs in Brent Burns]

To this day I am mad at Holland for not making that trade happen instead. 

[Dabura 12,228]

8 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

To this day I am mad at Holland for not making that trade happen instead. 

SAME

[F.Michael 4,590]

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-3-expansion-draft-targets/?fbclid=IwAR0SCbW6RJCkVouEwefVjWSk3FPVG8RGmSvROOqVhLZUK6VsGlEkoLQsY3s

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

5 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I was unaware of this before today, but apparently there's been rumblings over the years that Suter was a lockerroom cancer in Minnesota.

One woman who claims to have interned for the Wild said that Parise was mostly okay, but that Suter was extremely entitled.

Here's what one Bruins fan said:

Sounds like Parise got the cut because of bad contract and poor play. Suter because they wanted to free up another protection spot for another Dman, who wasn't part of the old boys club problems they've had.

Suter has no interest in winning a cup? Well then Detroit is the perfect fit. Lol.

The appeal with Suter, for me, is twofold.

1. You can sign him to a 2 year deal, play him with Seider for a year and a half, then trade him at the TDL in year 2, for a draft pick. Just in time to bring in Viro, or Johansson, or whoever.

2. Seider is presumably going to be an elite dman. Considering that Suter was once elite himself, he could mentor and provide some unique experience that the average vet can't.

5 hours ago, WRusco said:

I see a 2, possibly 3 yr window of bringing in the young players. 

I want to see Choloski, Lindstrom, Smith, Svetchnikov, McIssac, and others given a shot to prove if they can make it, or move on.

I don't feel the need to bring in older, over paid vets.

Problem is, you cant properly evaluate or develop your young dmen if they're all playing with other young, inexperienced dmen. Preferably, you would want a vet or 2 to pair with them while they develop.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I mean you're first going to have to convince me why Suter would even want to come to Detroit. He's gonna spend 2 of the last good years he has left with a team that has zero chance at a cup? Why? There's going to be many suitors for him that can offer him shots at the cup now.

I'll be frank... I don't think we have much of a shot at guys like Jamie Oleksiak either. But hopefully you can convince at least one of these younger guys with promises of big ice time and big role so that they can build their brand for the future.

Whether or not Suter wants to come to Detroit is irrelevant. It's a matter of whether or not Yzerman wants to pursue Suter. 

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Based on the rumors coming out about Suter's time in Minny I'd much rather have Seider mentored by Staal or Martinez. But I have the same complaint about them. Both will be retired before this team turns around so I don't see much use in investing in them. I'd rather pursure a Jordan Oesterle or Jake McCabe then ditch them in a trade in a few years while their still serviceable - much like Merrill and Nemeth -  or have them surprise us and stick around with the team as vets for the future.

We can flip Oesterle or McCabe for a 4th or 5th round pick in a few years? Sweet!

[LeftWinger 5,090]

3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-3-expansion-draft-targets/?fbclid=IwAR0SCbW6RJCkVouEwefVjWSk3FPVG8RGmSvROOqVhLZUK6VsGlEkoLQsY3s

The only thing I do not agree with is giving Washington back their 1st. "Helping" them out should and would cost a lot less. Yzerman got Staal and a 2nd in exchange for nothing basically in order to "help" out the Rangers. Now, I am not saying Samsonov is equal to Marc Staal, but I'm betting it would cost no more than a 2nd going back. Maybe just a 3rd. This would be PRE-Expansion draft.

I'd take Johnson and Foote for a 5th in return. This would be a total "help." Even though they are poised to circumvent the cap again with Hedman going on LTIR after surgery, I don't think they can keep him there all year and expect to be contenders again. They need cap relief, and this helps them tremendously, plus they will probably lose Palat or Killorn to Seattle considering they may choose to protect young players like Raddysh or Joseph instead. Pre-expansion.

Toronto...oh Toronto, what are you going to give us? You want Bertuzzi, you also want cap relief so you can re-sign Filigno and persue Suter (maybe) and possibly attempt a deal for Jones. It'll start with Nylander and a 1st. You wanna trade us Dermott so you don't lose him? Fine, Nylander, Dermott and Liljegrin. We'll even toss in a draft pick for ya! Pre-expansion. This would allow us to protect Hronek, Stecher and Dermott on the back end and Nylander will take Bert's protection up front. With Dermott, I really couldn't care less if we lost BOTH Cholowski and Lindstrom (which we cannot, but it wouldn't matter.)

I still like the Vancouver idea (rumor or suggestion, it doesn't matter) I would love to get another top 10 pick.

Dermott - Hronek

Koekkoek - Seider

Dekeyser - Stecher

??? (re-sign Staal?)

Yes, I'd still like to see KoekKoek get signed here. I know Cholo and Lindstrom are out of waiver exemptions, so maybe use them as a throw in for a trade above, or #7 D. Trade the other to Holland.

so let's sum it up! (  I like doing this!)

to DET : Ilya Samsonov (RFA rights)

to WSH : 2021 2nd round pick

to DET : Tyler Johnson, Cal Foote

to TPA : 2021 4th round pick

to DET : William Nylander, Travis Dermott, Timothy Liljegrin

to TOR : Tyler Bertuzzi, 6th round, Gus Lindstrom (why not!)

sign UFA's Slater KoekKoek and Zach Hyman. Re-sign Bobby Ryan and Luke Glendening.

[krsmith17 7,191]

42 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Toronto...oh Toronto, what are you going to give us? You want Bertuzzi, you also want cap relief so you can re-sign Filigno and persue Suter (maybe) and possibly attempt a deal for Jones. It'll start with Nylander and a 1st. You wanna trade us Dermott so you don't lose him? Fine, Nylander, Dermott and Liljegrin. We'll even toss in a draft pick for ya! Pre-expansion. This would allow us to protect Hronek, Stecher and Dermott on the back end and Nylander will take Bert's protection up front. With Dermott, I really couldn't care less if we lost BOTH Cholowski and Lindstrom (which we cannot, but it wouldn't matter.)

You're MASSIVELY overvaluing Bertuzzi. He doesn't get you Nylander straight up, let alone Leafs adding a 1st (or Dermott and Liljegren). It's not going to happen.

Also, Cholowski > Dermott

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

The only thing I do not agree with is giving Washington back their 1st. "Helping" them out should and would cost a lot less. Yzerman got Staal and a 2nd in exchange for nothing basically in order to "help" out the Rangers. Now, I am not saying Samsonov is equal to Marc Staal, but I'm betting it would cost no more than a 2nd going back. Maybe just a 3rd. This would be PRE-Expansion draft.

I'd take Johnson and Foote for a 5th in return. This would be a total "help." Even though they are poised to circumvent the cap again with Hedman going on LTIR after surgery, I don't think they can keep him there all year and expect to be contenders again. They need cap relief, and this helps them tremendously, plus they will probably lose Palat or Killorn to Seattle considering they may choose to protect young players like Raddysh or Joseph instead. Pre-expansion.

Toronto...oh Toronto, what are you going to give us? You want Bertuzzi, you also want cap relief so you can re-sign Filigno and persue Suter (maybe) and possibly attempt a deal for Jones. It'll start with Nylander and a 1st. You wanna trade us Dermott so you don't lose him? Fine, Nylander, Dermott and Liljegrin. We'll even toss in a draft pick for ya! Pre-expansion. This would allow us to protect Hronek, Stecher and Dermott on the back end and Nylander will take Bert's protection up front. With Dermott, I really couldn't care less if we lost BOTH Cholowski and Lindstrom (which we cannot, but it wouldn't matter.)

I still like the Vancouver idea (rumor or suggestion, it doesn't matter) I would love to get another top 10 pick.

Dermott - Hronek

Koekkoek - Seider

Dekeyser - Stecher

??? (re-sign Staal?)

Yes, I'd still like to see KoekKoek get signed here. I know Cholo and Lindstrom are out of waiver exemptions, so maybe use them as a throw in for a trade above, or #7 D. Trade the other to Holland.

so let's sum it up! (  I like doing this!)

to DET : Ilya Samsonov (RFA rights)

to WSH : 2021 2nd round pick

to DET : Tyler Johnson, Cal Foote

to TPA : 2021 4th round pick

to DET : William Nylander, Travis Dermott, Timothy Liljegrin

to TOR : Tyler Bertuzzi, 6th round, Gus Lindstrom (why not!)

sign UFA's Slater KoekKoek and Zach Hyman. Re-sign Bobby Ryan and Luke Glendening.

Unless the Caps can swing a deal with the Kracken - there stands a fair chance Yzerman could nab 1 of their 2 promising netminders for a very low price of a 2nd (might have to add a 3rd round pick too or a lowly prospect).

Gives me some hope for a faster rebuild.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Lol the player doesn't have a choice in the matter now? Yzerman gets his man!

No dummy. "Wanting" a player, or thinking a player would be a "good fit" has nothing to do with whether or not said player actually wants to sign.

You said yourself, the others are unlikely to sign in Detroit either, but yet you'd still want to pursue them?

7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

We get it. You're a Suter slappy and think he will choose the Red Wings. Good luck with that. I'd like to converse with the adults now though.

Not a "Suter slappy" at all. He just happens to be the best left-handed defenseman option available in free agency, which also happens to be a position which the Red Wings currently need to fill...

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

A lot more likely a young bottom 4 Dman takes a chance on Detroit than Suter. But I think you know that.

Which is exactly why Detroit will be one of the last on his list of destinations.

I think Suter is bad example and mentor for our young players. I'm not interested in more 35+ vets. And I think it's a very slim chance he wants to be here anyway. No amount of "BUT SUTER IS GOOD" is gonna change my mind on that. So go show your dead horse to someone else.

Again, saying we should target Suter (or any player) has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you think he will sign here. But I think you know that...

[krsmith17 7,191]

31 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Do you think he will sign here?

I think he *could* sign here. Same goes for virtually any UFA on the market any season. But AGAIN, that's beside the point. He still should be a target. You don't not call a free agent because he might not sign...

I get the feeling you've been rejected a lot of the years... Not that I didn't think that before...