2020 Offseason

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Stephen... NO

I'm pretty indifferent with Krug becoming a Red Wing, but I doubt he'd want to come to Detroit considering we're still in the middle of a rebuild.

[F.Michael 4,590]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Stephen... NO

The Habs writer for the athletic said Mantha for Domi + Mete would be a fair trade. I think it's probably fair.

But If we can turn that into Domi + Romanov somehow we should absolutely do it and not look back. Maybe a throw in a pick? Don't even know that we need to include Veleno.

I'll be ignorant, and ask where does Veleno fit with Detroit in the next few seasons (my thought being if Domi were used as a center on the Red Wings - wouldn't that make Veleno expendable to some extent)?

If he, and Mantha are packaged together that'll land us some quality in return - then why not?

Several years might show that it may have not been the best move, but I'm bored, and since there's nothing going on with Detroit - I'm sorta desperate for sumthin.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by F.Michael

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'm pretty indifferent with Krug becoming a Red Wing, but I doubt he'd want to come to Detroit considering we're still in the middle of a rebuild.

To me Krug is the definition of a luxury player. He doesn't eat big minutes, he's just really good at the PP. We need to commit big term and money to a player who can actually eat minutes on our blueline, like a Pietrangelo type.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To me Krug is the definition of a luxury player. He doesn't eat big minutes, he's just really good at the PP. We need to commit big term and money to a player who can actually eat minutes on our blueline, like a Pietrangelo type.

Agreed...With the Blues moving Allen that will probably free up just enough $$$ to re-sign Petro.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by F.Michael

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

18 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'll be ignorant, and ask where does Veleno fit with Detroit in the next few seasons (my thought being if Domi were used as a center on the Red Wings - wouldn't that make Veleno expendable to some extent)?

If he, and Mantha are packaged together that'll land us some quality in return - then why not?

Several years might show that it may have not been the best move, but I'm bored, and since there's nothing going on with Detroit - I'm sorta desperate for sumthin.

 

Im fine with it. We badly need a 2C like now. I'm not that impressed by Veleno either.

[Akakabuto 1,831]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To me Krug is the definition of a luxury player. He doesn't eat big minutes, he's just really good at the PP. We need to commit big term and money to a player who can actually eat minutes on our blueline, like a Pietrangelo type.

Agreed. He doesn't fit the type we need and he's also too old in my opinion. Dude is 29 yo. We need to look for defenseman in the age group 23-26. Wings are, what, 5 to 8 years from possibly contending? 35-36 year old Torey Krug is gonna help us win the cup?

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Im fine with it. We badly need a 2C like now. I'm not that impressed by Veleno either.

Looking around it appears Calgary might be a spot for Domi, and whomever - Johnny 'Hockey', and Monahan have been rumored to be on the trading block...Not sure how even that would play out?

[Akakabuto 1,831]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Timashov - Filppula - Glendening
Ehn - Nielsen - Abdelkader

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

That Ehn and Glendog god tier defense tho...

[mackel 737]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

I'm pretty indifferent with Krug becoming a Red Wing, but I doubt he'd want to come to Detroit considering we're still in the middle of a rebuild.

I think you're being optimistic... I see us more at the quarter mark of the rebuild.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

36 minutes ago, mackel said:

I think you're being optimistic... I see us more at the quarter mark of the rebuild.

I don't even know that we're at the quarter mark. Forward ranks suck. Defensive ranks suck. Goalies suck. Coaching sucks. Larkin not elite. Zadina not elite. Seider maybe elite. We gotta do a TON of good drafting yet and find more than a few elite players in there. That could potentially take another decade unless we really get a lot of good high picks or get very lucky. 

[mackel 737]

18 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't even know that we're at the quarter mark. Forward ranks suck. Defensive ranks suck. Goalies suck. Coaching sucks. Larkin not elite. Zadina not elite. Seider maybe elite. We gotta do a TON of good drafting yet and find more than a few elite players in there. That could potentially take another decade unless we really get a lot of good high picks or get very lucky. 

At this point our rebuild seems to be have been forced, by constantly dropping in the lottery, into the Blues/Islanders model.  By that I mean no ELITE pieces but maybe several star/high end players and tonnes of depth.

Not to say we're close to that end result, but unless we get a few 2nd round gems or better lotto results I see this team post rebuild as a deep team with no superstar elite players.

[F.Michael 4,590]

20 minutes ago, mackel said:

At this point our rebuild seems to be have been forced, by constantly dropping in the lottery, into the Blues/Islanders model.  By that I mean no ELITE pieces but maybe several star/high end players and tonnes of depth.

Not to say we're close to that end result, but unless we get a few 2nd round gems or better lotto results I see this team post rebuild as a deep team with no superstar elite players.

Elite talent can certainly help, but I’d assume have a great coach who can motivate, and get the team to play at their best...NYI are an impressive bunch - maybe Lambert absorbs enough knowledge from Trotz, and brings this to Detroit.

[Akakabuto 1,831]

23 minutes ago, mackel said:

At this point our rebuild seems to be have been forced, by constantly dropping in the lottery, into the Blues/Islanders model.  By that I mean no ELITE pieces but maybe several star/high end players and tonnes of depth.

Not to say we're close to that end result, but unless we get a few 2nd round gems or better lotto results I see this team post rebuild as a deep team with no superstar elite players.

I think you can put Bruins in that category aswell. A team that is one or two tiers above Blues or Islanders.

 

[kipwinger 8,675]

I genuinely don't think we're as far away as people think, IMO it's just a matter of getting people in the right places to succeed. We need a top of the lineup offensively capable center in this draft (any of Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, or (maybe) Perfetti will do). We need that this year because this year is deep in forwards and next year isn't. Would hate to get a higher pick next year (which is loaded with defensemen) after taking Drysdale this year. Then take a LD next year. Preferably an offensive one. With my 2nd rounders in both years I'm looking at goal scorers. Jan Mysak fits that bill this season, so someone like that on the wing.

The Bert-Larkin-Mantha line is a nightmare matchup for other teams top lines. They proved all season that they can play against tough matchups and succeed. Your "2nd" line is your bread and butter scoring line. Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi/Perfetti with Zadina and somebody to dig out pucks (I'm thinking Veleno or Rasmussen) would go in to take the offensive zone draws and put points on the board. After that it's all depth. One of Ras or Veleno centers the 3rd line with any combination of wingers, we've got a bunch of good depth options in Fabbri, Mastrosimone, Berggren, or anybody we draft in the 2nd rounds the next two years. 4th line? Who cares. Pearson-Glendening-Smith. Done.

On defense you draft a Werenski to Seider's Seth Jones next year. You put one of McIsaac or Johansson with Hronek on the 2nd pair. Again, 3rd pair? Who cares. The other of McIsaac/Johansson and Cholowski, or Tuomisto, or whomever.

The point is that we're probably two drafts away from being legitimately competitive. Maybe sooner if Yzerman swings a trade or two (to fill that hole in the left defense).

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Why would we trade our best goal scorer for a 40-45 pt guy in domi (yes he got 70 pts once but hes realistically a 45 pt guy)

If we’re trading mantha might as well keep going with the rebuild and go for a 1st and high end prospects coming back not a 25 yr old player whos bitching to a team hes a top 6 guy ... im sure yzerman wouldnt want to deal with that nonsense

for the record im for keeping mantha unless someone sends a deal we cant refuse and i cant see the habs giving us that 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

32 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I genuinely don't think we're as far away as people think, IMO it's just a matter of getting people in the right places to succeed. We need a top of the lineup offensively capable center in this draft (any of Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, or (maybe) Perfetti will do). We need that this year because this year is deep in forwards and next year isn't. Would hate to get a higher pick next year (which is loaded with defensemen) after taking Drysdale this year. Then take a LD next year. Preferably an offensive one. With my 2nd rounders in both years I'm looking at goal scorers. Jan Mysak fits that bill this season, so someone like that on the wing.

The Bert-Larkin-Mantha line is a nightmare matchup for other teams top lines. They proved all season that they can play against tough matchups and succeed. Your "2nd" line is your bread and butter scoring line. Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi/Perfetti with Zadina and somebody to dig out pucks (I'm thinking Veleno or Rasmussen) would go in to take the offensive zone draws and put points on the board. After that it's all depth. One of Ras or Veleno centers the 3rd line with any combination of wingers, we've got a bunch of good depth options in Fabbri, Mastrosimone, Berggren, or anybody we draft in the 2nd rounds the next two years. 4th line? Who cares. Pearson-Glendening-Smith. Done.

On defense you draft a Werenski to Seider's Seth Jones next year. You put one of McIsaac or Johansson with Hronek on the 2nd pair. Again, 3rd pair? Who cares. The other of McIsaac/Johansson and Cholowski, or Tuomisto, or whomever.

The point is that we're probably two drafts away from being legitimately competitive. Maybe sooner if Yzerman swings a trade or two (to fill that hole in the left defense).

 

This is all nice in theory “if” everyone pans put which sadly they wont ... we’re nowhere near contending but i think when we will be that 4th line will be important as was the grind line when we were on top . Dont know if he’ll pan out but i love with smith can bring since we dont have any of that on the roster so im hoping he pushes for a spot somehow

And god help us if we take perfetti at 4 cause our buddy owns the team and said he doesnt smoke and goes to bed by 9

[F.Michael 4,590]

42 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Why would we trade our best goal scorer for a 40-45 pt guy in domi (yes he got 70 pts once but hes realistically a 45 pt guy)

If we’re trading mantha might as well keep going with the rebuild and go for a 1st and high end prospects coming back not a 25 yr old player whos bitching to a team hes a top 6 guy ... im sure yzerman wouldnt want to deal with that nonsense

for the record im for keeping mantha unless someone sends a deal we cant refuse and i cant see the habs giving us that 

We’re going this route based on 2 things...

Mantha track record of injuries, and what his demands will be.

It seems unlikely he play anything more than 60 a season,    and if he and/or his agent give Grand Master Y any grief while still being a RFA - I could see him getting shipped out.

1 disgruntled player for another.

36 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 

This is all nice in theory “if” everyone pans put which sadly they wont ... we’re nowhere near contending but i think when we will be that 4th line will be important as was the grind line when we were on top . Dont know if he’ll pan out but i love with smith can bring since we dont have any of that on the roster so im hoping he pushes for a spot somehow

And god help us if we take perfetti at 4 cause our buddy owns the team and said he doesnt smoke and goes to bed by 9

Now if Perfetti were to donate his used underwear to the local men’s homeless shelter...I’m sold!

Edited September 3, 2020 by F.Michael

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I genuinely don't think we're as far away as people think, IMO it's just a matter of getting people in the right places to succeed. We need a top of the lineup offensively capable center in this draft (any of Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, or (maybe) Perfetti will do). We need that this year because this year is deep in forwards and next year isn't. Would hate to get a higher pick next year (which is loaded with defensemen) after taking Drysdale this year. Then take a LD next year. Preferably an offensive one. With my 2nd rounders in both years I'm looking at goal scorers. Jan Mysak fits that bill this season, so someone like that on the wing.

The Bert-Larkin-Mantha line is a nightmare matchup for other teams top lines. They proved all season that they can play against tough matchups and succeed. Your "2nd" line is your bread and butter scoring line. Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi/Perfetti with Zadina and somebody to dig out pucks (I'm thinking Veleno or Rasmussen) would go in to take the offensive zone draws and put points on the board. After that it's all depth. One of Ras or Veleno centers the 3rd line with any combination of wingers, we've got a bunch of good depth options in Fabbri, Mastrosimone, Berggren, or anybody we draft in the 2nd rounds the next two years. 4th line? Who cares. Pearson-Glendening-Smith. Done.

On defense you draft a Werenski to Seider's Seth Jones next year. You put one of McIsaac or Johansson with Hronek on the 2nd pair. Again, 3rd pair? Who cares. The other of McIsaac/Johansson and Cholowski, or Tuomisto, or whomever.

The point is that we're probably two drafts away from being legitimately competitive. Maybe sooner if Yzerman swings a trade or two (to fill that hole in the left defense).

The BLM line is certainly our only good line, but i really dont see it as the nightmare to others that u do. Bert, Larkin, and Mantha are 2nd liners on most competitive teams. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom was the last line that struck fear into opponents. And i dont think BLM is even fit to hold that lines jock.

One of my fears for this team and its fanbase is that we just accept medicority bc parity. No. This is the goddamn Red Wings. I dont just wanna win i wanna poop excellence. I want the league to watch larkin and say this is the best 2 way center in the game. Hes redefining hockey. But Larkin isnt that guy...

Maybe my standards are inflated based on past experience, but i refuse to apologize for having high standards. I think Seider is an excellent building block and future norris winner but after that i dont see it. I think Rossi could be a diamond for us if we get him, but we still have to get him. I dont think were gonna get everything we need outta the next few drafts and even less of our current prospects will pan out. I think theres a lot of patience still to be had.

[kipwinger 8,675]

17 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

The BLM line is certainly our only good line, but i really dont see it as the nightmare to others that u do. Bert, Larkin, and Mantha are 2nd liners on most competitive teams. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom was the last line that struck fear into opponents. And i dont think BLM is even fit to hold that lines jock.

One of my fears for this team and its fanbase is that we just accept medicority bc parity. No. This is the goddamn Red Wings. I dont just wanna win i wanna poop excellence. I want the league to watch larkin and say this is the best 2 way center in the game. Hes redefining hockey. But Larkin isnt that guy...

Maybe my standards are inflated based on past experience, but i refuse to apologize for having high standards. I think Seider is an excellent building block and future norris winner but after that i dont see it. I think Rossi could be a diamond for us if we get him, but we still have to get him. I dont think were gonna get everything we need outta the next few drafts and even less of our current prospects will pan out. I think theres a lot of patience still to be had.

I can understand why you'd think this, but I don't think that the evidence (or logic) concur with your assessment. Here's why I say the BLM line is a beast:

Premise 1: The BLM line is Detroit's only good line.

Premise 2: As a result they get the highest quality of competition.

Premise 3: They cave in that competition to the extent that their possession metrics are the 10th best in the league, as a line. https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/detroit-red-wings/line-combinations/

Conclusion 1: The BLM line faces the best every night, and controls the play against the best every night in most instances.

Conclusion 2: Throw the BLM line out against other team's top lines, cancel those other team's top lines out (or actively beat them) and let your 2nd line full of offensive guys (as per my original proposal) run up the scoreboard.

Edited September 3, 2020 by kipwinger

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

We’re going this route based on 2 things...

Mantha track record of injuries, and what his demands will be.

It seems unlikely he play anything more than 60 a season,    and if he and/or his agent give Grand Master Y any grief while still being a RFA - I could see him getting shipped out.

1 disgruntled player for another.

Now if Perfetti were to donate his used underwear to the local men’s homeless shelter...I’m sold!

How the hell is mantha a disgruntled player ? Id rather have mantha by a country mile than max domi ... if you want to trade mantha you dont bet back a 25 yr old whos bitching about ice time you get back pieces to help with the rebuild

 

Perfetti can run into a burning homeless shelter and save 27 people and i still wouldnt want him

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

10 hours ago, F.Michael said:

I constructed a moat, and filled it with alligators.

I don't think it'll work. Gators won't eat soy.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

8 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

You went full retard.

9 hours ago, F.Michael said:

I'll be ignorant, and ask where does Veleno fit with Detroit in the next few seasons (my thought being if Domi were used as a center on the Red Wings - wouldn't that make Veleno expendable to some extent)?

If he, and Mantha are packaged together that'll land us some quality in return - then why not?

Several years might show that it may have not been the best move, but I'm bored, and since there's nothing going on with Detroit - I'm sorta desperate for sumthin.

 

Assuming Ras plays wing, Wings will still need a 3C. Even if you think Larkin is not a legit 1C, a platoon of Larkin, Domi. Veleno down the middle would be deep.

I wouldn't trade Mantha tho.

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Dabura 12,228]

We should be kicking the tires on Phillip Danault.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, Dabura said:

We should be kicking the tires on Phillip Danault.

We already have Phillip Danault. His name is Joe Veleno.