2020 Offseason

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

No settlement between Detroit an Bert apparently. Going to arbitration. 

Yup.

Kind of surprised it didn't get settled before arbitration, since they were so close on AAV. They must have been far apart on term?...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Nielsen would not be dumb to buy out. The team would save cap space in each of the next two seasons, as well as real money over that time. The extra $600K that would remain on the books for the extra two seasons, is nothing. We shouldn't have any bad contracts on the books at that time, and a bunch of our top players will be on ELC's. We'll still have more than enough cap space to sign our RFA's, and go after big name UFA's. It would be dumb NOT to buy out Nielsen. He f***ing sucks... 

Wings just bought out Abdelkader and are on the hook for the next 6 years on that one. Still have one more season of Weiss' buyout. The expansion draft is coming up and the Wings must expose 2 qualifying forwards. There are no kids that should be on the roster who won't be because of Nielsen. Buying him out now takes up cap space for the next 4 years. 

But we should still do it now because you think he sucks. Ok.

How about:

Wings wait until after the expansion draft to buy him out.

1. His cap hit THIS year isnt hurting the team.

2. Any kids who SHOULD be on the roster still can be.

3. Nielsen can be used as one of the 2 qualifying forwards exposed at the expansion draft, protecting a more promising, younger forward.

4. Weiss' contract will be off the books after this season.

5. Buying out Nielsen with only 1 year left will then only count against the cap for 2 seasons instead of 4.

This is why it would be smarter to wait.

[ely s 458]

Sam Reinhart got a 1year $5.2m deal https://www.nhl.com/news/sam-reinhart-signing-update-news-status/c-319292732?tid=281072352

To be fair with connor Brown getting $3.6m and Reinhart $5.2m, Bert´s $4.25m don´t look that far off. I don´t understand why SY was not going for it. Must be term related

[ely s 458]

3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Wings just bought out Abdelkader and are on the hook for the next 6 years on that one. Still have one more season of Weiss' buyout. The expansion draft is coming up and the Wings must expose 2 qualifying forwards. There are no kids that should be on the roster who won't be because of Nielsen. Buying him out now takes up cap space for the next 4 years. 

But we should still do it now because you think he sucks. Ok.

How about:

Wings wait until after the expansion draft to buy him out.

1. His cap hit THIS year isnt hurting the team.

2. Any kids who SHOULD be on the roster still can be.

3. Nielsen can be used as one of the 2 qualifying forwards exposed at the expansion draft, protecting a more promising, younger forward.

4. Weiss' contract will be off the books after this season.

5. Buying out Nielsen with only 1 year left will then only count against the cap for 2 seasons instead of 4.

This is why it would be smarter to wait.

Is it smarter? you have a 5.25, 4.25 and 0.5 cap hit that way, if you buy him out this year you have 3.4, 4.4, 0.7, 0.7, so you are talking about $700k in year 4 as a difference. It´s probably smarter on the exposing part, but moneywise there is close to no difference

if we buyout Nielsen this year, we have a chance of signing another free agent center who is more likely to give a decent return at the TDL

[krsmith17 7,191]

37 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Wings just bought out Abdelkader and are on the hook for the next 6 years on that one. Still have one more season of Weiss' buyout. The expansion draft is coming up and the Wings must expose 2 qualifying forwards. There are no kids that should be on the roster who won't be because of Nielsen. Buying him out now takes up cap space for the next 4 years. 

But we should still do it now because you think he sucks. Ok.

How about:

Wings wait until after the expansion draft to buy him out.

1. His cap hit THIS year isnt hurting the team.

2. Any kids who SHOULD be on the roster still can be.

3. Nielsen can be used as one of the 2 qualifying forwards exposed at the expansion draft, protecting a more promising, younger forward.

4. Weiss' contract will be off the books after this season.

5. Buying out Nielsen with only 1 year left will then only count against the cap for 2 seasons instead of 4.

This is why it would be smarter to wait.

The Abdelkader or Weiss buyouts should not have any bearing on whether or not Nielsen is bought out. Neither should the expansion draft. Pending UFA's are considered qualifying players and can be exposed in the expansion draft. Not all of Filppula, Ryan, Gagner, Helm, Erne, Glendening will be traded at the deadline, and those that aren't could be exposed to Seattle. Nielsen is not needed for the expansion draft. And we have enough protection spots for our promising, younger forwards with or without Nielsen.

I would rather any player in the organization get ice time over Nielsen. He's been that bad. When you have a player that has performed that poorly, you buy him out. Yzerman did it with Abdelkader, and I think he should do it with Nielsen. We'll see...

Yes, buying him out now keeps in on the books for four years, but buying him out next year keeps him on the books for three years. It's only a difference of one year, and about $600K in that final year. And that's not even factoring in the real money saved by buying him out a year earlier. Saving real dollars should matter any time, especially in the middle of a global pandemic...

54 minutes ago, ely s said:

Sam Reinhart got a 1year $5.2m deal https://www.nhl.com/news/sam-reinhart-signing-update-news-status/c-319292732?tid=281072352

To be fair with connor Brown getting $3.6m and Reinhart $5.2m, Bert´s $4.25m don´t look that far off. I don´t understand why SY was not going for it. Must be term related

Definitely an issue with term. I'm assuming Yzerman wants to continue with the short-term contracts, and Bertuzzi wanted to be locked in long-term.

[Akakabuto 1,832]

When can we expect to hear of a verdict?

[SwedeLundin77 460]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The Abdelkader or Weiss buyouts should not have any bearing on whether or not Nielsen is bought out. Neither should the expansion draft. Pending UFA's are considered qualifying players and can be exposed in the expansion draft. Not all of Filppula, Ryan, Gagner, Helm, Erne, Glendening will be traded at the deadline, and those that aren't could be exposed to Seattle. Nielsen is not needed for the expansion draft. And we have enough protection spots for our promising, younger forwards with or without Nielsen.

I would rather any player in the organization get ice time over Nielsen. He's been that bad. When you have a player that has performed that poorly, you buy him out. Yzerman did it with Abdelkader, and I think he should do it with Nielsen. We'll see...

Yes, buying him out now keeps in on the books for four years, but buying him out next year keeps him on the books for three years. It's only a difference of one year, and about $600K in that final year. And that's not even factoring in the real money saved by buying him out a year earlier. Saving real dollars should matter any time, especially in the middle of a global pandemic...

Definitely an issue with term. I'm assuming Yzerman wants to continue with the short-term contracts, and Bertuzzi wanted to be locked in long-term.

I can also see it the other way... Yzerman maybe wanted to lock him at a longer-term for between the two prices but Bert wanted a shorter term so he can improve production and score a bigger contract next go-around. Who knows, to be honest.

2 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

When can we expect to hear of a verdict?

Within 48 hours.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The Abdelkader or Weiss buyouts should not have any bearing on whether or not Nielsen is bought out. Neither should the expansion draft. Pending UFA's are considered qualifying players and can be exposed in the expansion draft. Not all of Filppula, Ryan, Gagner, Helm, Erne, Glendening will be traded at the deadline, and those that aren't could be exposed to Seattle. Nielsen is not needed for the expansion draft. And we have enough protection spots for our promising, younger forwards with or without Nielsen.

Incorrect. The Seattle Expansion draft has the same rules as the Vegas one.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NHL_Expansion_Draft&ved=2ahUKEwio06qO0NDsAhXoB50JHdDVD1oQFjAAegQIIBAD&usg=AOvVaw1GkDPoVm0f1mXpAruurVMw

"Teams had to submit their list of protected players by June 17, 2017, and they had to expose at least two forwards and one defenseman that had played at least 40 games in the 2016–17 season or more than 70 games in the 2015–16 and 2016–17 seasons combined and had to still be contracted for the 2017–18 season."

None of the pending UFA's can be used.

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes, buying him out now keeps in on the books for four years, but buying him out next year keeps him on the books for three years. It's only a difference of one year, and about $600K in that final year. And that's not even factoring in the real money saved by buying him out a year earlier. Saving real dollars should matter any time, especially in the middle of a global pandemic...

It's not just a difference of 600k. Add that to Abby's buyout hit and it's a lot more. I want to be competitive by that time, and I don't want any more cap space issues that could affect contracts later. Better to pay more now when we don't have pending free agents to re-sign or big name UFA's to sign.

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I would rather any player in the organization get ice time over Nielsen. He's been that bad. When you have a player that has performed that poorly, you buy him out. Yzerman did it with Abdelkader, and I think he should do it with Nielsen. We'll see...

Nielsen doesn't have to play. He will already have met the 70 games played requirement over the previous 2 seasons. He can be a permanent scratch or even sent down and still be left exposed. He wouldn't have to take ice time away from anybody.

4 hours ago, ely s said:

Is it smarter? you have a 5.25, 4.25 and 0.5 cap hit that way, if you buy him out this year you have 3.4, 4.4, 0.7, 0.7, so you are talking about $700k in year 4 as a difference. It´s probably smarter on the exposing part, but moneywise there is close to no difference

if we buyout Nielsen this year, we have a chance of signing another free agent center who is more likely to give a decent return at the TDL

Nielsen's contract isnt affecting SY from signing anymore players now. The time he should be worried about Nielsen holding up other contracts is later, which is why it's better to take the salary hit now.

Minimizing the potential for creating cap issues by arguing its only 600 or 700k is too shortsighted IMO. We have seen that seemingly insignificant amount create cap issues for teams before. For a team that traditionally spends to the cap when competitive, that cap hit could be the difference to signing a key free agent or re-signing a key player. It's happened before.

Take the hit now.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

I can also see it the other way... Yzerman maybe wanted to lock him at a longer-term for between the two prices but Bert wanted a shorter term so he can improve production and score a bigger contract next go-around. Who knows, to be honest.

I suppose that could be the case, but if it is, I don't think that would be wise for Bertuzzi. I'm sure most players want to bank on themselves, but there's no guarantee that he will be on the top line with Larkin and Mantha all of next season, and if he's not, there's no guarantee he will be able to duplicate the same sort of production. I love Bertuzzi, but I do think his numbers are a little inflated. He'll never be a line drive. He's a good utility guy, the type of players you need to win, but he's far from a cornerstone of this team in my opinion.

[krsmith17 7,191]

58 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Incorrect. The Seattle Expansion draft has the same rules as the Vegas one.

None of the pending UFA's can be used.

Ok, I thought I read the opposite a while back, but fair enough. If that is the case, maybe that would be the ONLY reason to hang on to Nielsen an extra year...

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It's not just a difference of 600k. Add that to Abby's buyout hit and it's a lot more. I want to be competitive by that time, and I don't want any more cap space issues that could affect contracts later. Better to pay more now when we don't have pending free agents to re-sign or big name UFA's to sign.

It is just a difference of the $666K. Like I said, no other buyout or other contract should have any bearing on potentially buying out Nielsen.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nielsen doesn't have to play. He will already have met the 70 games played requirement over the previous 2 seasons. He can be a permanent scratch or even sent down and still be left exposed. He wouldn't have to take ice time away from anybody.

 If I were confident in him being waived or permanently scratched, I'd be fine with not buying him out. I just don't want him on the 23-man roster.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nielsen's contract isnt affecting SY from signing anymore players now. The time he should be worried about Nielsen holding up other contracts is later, which is why it's better to take the salary hit now.

Minimizing the potential for creating cap issues by arguing its only 600 or 700k is too shortsighted IMO. We have seen that seemingly insignificant amount create cap issues for teams before. For a team that traditionally spends to the cap when competitive, that cap hit could be the difference to signing a key free agent or re-signing a key player. It's happened before.

Take the hit now.

$666K is not going to affect Yzerman from signing any big name free agents. No, we have never seen a team not be able to sign a big name free agent over $600-700K. If things are that tight, you make moves elsewhere, waive an Erne, or whatever. You never pass on a big free agent signing over peanuts. Also, like I said, cap space shouldn't be an issue in 3-4 years regardless of whether or not we buy out Nielsen. Most of our top players will be on ELC's or their first bridge contract. The only players that should be making "big money" in that 4th year, are Larkin, Mantha, maybe Hronek, and maybe a free agent or two. That $666K would NOT affect our ability to lure an free agents.

[Akakabuto 1,832]

re Nielsen buy-out

Upside: Get a bad player off the roster and save real money,

Downside: A cap hit of less than 700K under two years where it wont hurt us.

 

 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

Bertuzzi will likely receive a one year contract, sub $4M, keeping him restricted next offseason. 

[Akakabuto 1,832]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Bertuzzi will likely receive a one year contract, sub $4M, keeping him restricted next offseason. 

Even tho I don't like this going to arbitration thats works for the Red Wings.

I think it's safe to assume term was the hangup between Detroit and Bertuzzi.

“When you get into the longer-term contracts, generally you’re locked into them,” Yzerman said. “We’re just trying to move cautiously. In the climate we’re in, with uncertainty about our salary cap for years to come (it remained flat at $81.5 million), we just felt this was a good way to go. We’re prepared to sign players to longer-term contracts, but we’re going to be careful, including our own players. We’re going to move slowly for the time being and be careful about handing out long-term deals.” 

Steve Yzerman: Red Wings looked to upgrade every position in free agency

[krsmith17 7,191]

28 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Even tho I don't like this going to arbitration thats works for the Red Wings.

I think it's safe to assume term was the hangup between Detroit and Bertuzzi.

“When you get into the longer-term contracts, generally you’re locked into them,” Yzerman said. “We’re just trying to move cautiously. In the climate we’re in, with uncertainty about our salary cap for years to come (it remained flat at $81.5 million), we just felt this was a good way to go. We’re prepared to sign players to longer-term contracts, but we’re going to be careful, including our own players. We’re going to move slowly for the time being and be careful about handing out long-term deals.” 

Steve Yzerman: Red Wings looked to upgrade every position in free agency

Yeah, and I'm perfectly okay with taking a more cautious approach in these negotiations. It'll be interesting to see what Mantha eventually ends up signing for as well.

[gcom007 1,465]

42 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Even tho I don't like this going to arbitration thats works for the Red Wings.

I think it's safe to assume term was the hangup between Detroit and Bertuzzi.

“When you get into the longer-term contracts, generally you’re locked into them,” Yzerman said. “We’re just trying to move cautiously. In the climate we’re in, with uncertainty about our salary cap for years to come (it remained flat at $81.5 million), we just felt this was a good way to go. We’re prepared to sign players to longer-term contracts, but we’re going to be careful, including our own players. We’re going to move slowly for the time being and be careful about handing out long-term deals.” 

Steve Yzerman: Red Wings looked to upgrade every position in free agency

Super smart pandemic or not for where we’re at, especially with the way our longer term deals have had a way of completely backfiring quite often lately.

[Wings3:16 322]

[LeftWinger 5,068]

...so, of course they are going to make us wait the entire 48 hours for a verdict.

[Akakabuto 1,832]

Daley is the first ex-wing to get a new job this offseason. Off the ice.

[marcaractac 3,963]

14 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Daley is the first ex-wing to get a new job this offseason. Off the ice.

Waiting to see who hires Howard as their nutritionist. 

[Akakabuto 1,832]

6 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Waiting to see who hires Howard as their nutritionist. 

Maybe Abdelkader could get a job as an organist? Heard that he is real gud at pulling the piano.

[LeftWinger 5,068]

This is ridiculous....decision please!

[Akakabuto 1,832]

 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, Akakabuto said:

 

 

1 year. RFA again next offseason.

[Akakabuto 1,832]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

1 year. RFA again next offseason.

Yzerman is probably very pleased in how this turned out.

[_SP_ 129]

9 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Yzerman is probably very pleased in how this turned out.

Nah. Nobody wins in arbitration.  See it all the time in MLB.  In order to win, you have to air every dirty laundry and nitpick every shortcoming a player has in order to win.    Hopefully it doesn't sour the relationship. 

http://jbudd.csom.umn.edu/RESEARCH/Baseball-arbitration-paper.pdf