Ken Holland contract extension watch

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I hate saying it, but Danny D is a young Kyle Quincey. Q wasnt worth 4 point whatever, and Dekeyser certainly isnt worth 5 no matter what role hes playing. Hope he can change my mind this year. This team needs superstar caliber players as pillars to build around. We cant keep overpaying mid teir players and expecting them to step up.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I hate saying it, but Danny D is a young Kyle Quincey. Q wasnt worth 4 point whatever, and Dekeyser certainly isnt worth 5 no matter what role hes playing. Hope he can change my mind this year. This team needs superstar caliber players as pillars to build around. We cant keep overpaying mid teir players and expecting them to step up.

I don't think anyone would say that DeKeyser has been living up to that contract. He isn't massively overpaid at $5M, but lower $4M would have been ideal. He's not a top 2 defenseman, but a solid top 4. If he's utilized properly, I think he could have a bounce back season. Unfortunately though, Blashill will likely overplay him, 22+ minutes a night in a top pair role.

It's a bit of a stretch though to say that there are 215 defensemen in the league better than him like kjw25 is suggesting...

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone would say that Unfortunately though, Blashill will likely overplay him, 22+ minutes a night in a top pair role.

It's a bit of a stretch though to say that there are 215 defensemen in the league better than him like kjw25 is suggesting...

Green + Daley for top 2 instead? 

[krsmith17 7,191]

42 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Green + Daley for top 2 instead? 

Not ideal, but yes, I'd rather see that. 

[Buppy 1,720]

I think it was a combination of Green/Jensen and Blashill, plus just the overall bad luck of the team, making Dekeyser look bad. His role and usage has not changed much since he started here, and his first two years under Babcock were significantly better. In Blashill's first year, paired with Quincey mostly, was also better despite being somewhat more defensively deployed.

I think he is a passable top pair, with a partner who complements his skills at least. Not sure we have that partner for him though.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, Buppy said:

I think it was a combination of Green/Jensen and Blashill, plus just the overall bad luck of the team, making Dekeyser look bad. His role and usage has not changed much since he started here, and his first two years under Babcock were significantly better. In Blashill's first year, paired with Quincey mostly, was also better despite being somewhat more defensively deployed.

I think he is a passable top pair, with a partner who complements his skills at least. Not sure we have that partner for him though.

I hope you're right on the first part. As for the second part, of course he could be a serviceable top pair with the right partner. Most NHL defensemen could. Ian White looked good next to Lidstrom. Marc Methot looked good next to Karlsson.

As of right now, I see DeKeyser as a solid 2nd pair defenseman, that can play limited minutes on the top pair. I hope he proves me wrong and has a huge bounce back season, eating big minutes on the top pair.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Not ideal, but yes, I'd rather see that. 

No thanks I'd rather see 2 guys who are both reliable on the defensive side of the game, so at least try Danny D and Daley. Also come trade dead line  Green will be gone  so I'd rather use him on the PP to boost his points and maximize the return for him.

Also it's funny how hung up people are over a GMs and coaches contract extension, when all it means is basically gifted money if they get fired. Best example of this is Winnipeg, does anyone really believe Cheveldayoff and Maurice will be there next year if Winnipeg misses the playoffs again? I for sure don't and a few million here and there are like pocketmoney for the Illitches and Thomsons' of the world BUT it makes the organization look good in the eyes of future GM and coach candidates because they know even if they get fired they'd get a nice goodbye present.

[Buppy 1,720]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I hope you're right on the first part. As for the second part, of course he could be a serviceable top pair with the right partner. Most NHL defensemen could. Ian White looked good next to Lidstrom. Marc Methot looked good next to Karlsson....

I said, "partner who complements his skills", not, "elite superstar to carry him". He meshed pretty well with Quincey, and looked like a decent top pair in 14-15. Blashill messed them up a bit, but still wasn't terrible. Someone positionally reliable who can make a good pass. Like a Spurgeon or Stralman type, though ideally someone with the muscle to clear the crease when needed.

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I apologize if this was already said ad nauseum (sp?) but I just couldn't go back and read all 10 pages of this topic. As to whether KH's contract should be extended really comes down to whether or not he is doing what ownership is asking him to do, not the fans. If so, then yes, he should be extended. If ownership wants to make the playoffs again and Holland makes moves to accomplish this, then he is doing his job, even if the fans want a rebuild. As much as fans hated KH delaying the rebuild for years in order to squeek into the playoffs and keep the streak going, that's what ownership wanted. They sign his paychecks, they have the ability to fire him, not us. I can never blame someone for doing the job that they were paid to do, even if I didnt agree with how they did it. Criticism by fans over the direction of the team was fair, but it was never fair to blame Holland for that. He had a job to do and he did it, I can't blame the guy for that. Some of his transactions on the other hand...

Its the same with Bettman. He is booed and jeered at every event where there are NHL fans present, especially the draft. Yet, he is secure in his job because the owners are happy with the job he is doing, So what the fans think really doesnt matter, he doesnt work for you.

[gcom007 1,465]

9 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I apologize if this was already said ad nauseum (sp?) but I just couldn't go back and read all 10 pages of this topic. As to whether KH's contract should be extended really comes down to whether or not he is doing what ownership is asking him to do, not the fans. If so, then yes, he should be extended. If ownership wants to make the playoffs again and Holland makes moves to accomplish this, then he is doing his job, even if the fans want a rebuild. As much as fans hated KH delaying the rebuild for years in order to squeek into the playoffs and keep the streak going, that's what ownership wanted. They sign his paychecks, they have the ability to fire him, not us. I can never blame someone for doing the job that they were paid to do, even if I didnt agree with how they did it. Criticism by fans over the direction of the team was fair, but it was never fair to blame Holland for that. He had a job to do and he did it, I can't blame the guy for that. Some of his transactions on the other hand...

Its the same with Bettman. He is booed and jeered at every event where there are NHL fans present, especially the draft. Yet, he is secure in his job because the owners are happy with the job he is doing, So what the fans think really doesnt matter, he doesnt work for you.

He didn't even do that job very well. Too many of the moves he's made over the last 6-7 years defy any sort of justification. He did nothing to help the team get into the playoffs handing out many of the contracts to the players he did. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

On 9/22/2017 at 12:52 PM, krsmith17 said:

Not ideal, but yes, I'd rather see that. 

Too similar of players.  They need to split them up.  Dekeyser-Daley, ???-Green.  The problem is the three of them are 2nd pair guys and everyone else is a 3rd pair guy.  If you put Dekeyser with a legit #1, he'd look better.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

On 9/21/2017 at 10:32 PM, kjw25 said:

How come Holland is never held accountable? When you are one of the worst teams in the league yet have the highest payroll, something needs to be done.

Hollands Contracts- Abdelkador- Awful, just terrible.

                                 Helm-Lets lock him up when he never stays healthy and cannot score. Awful again

                                  Ericsson- Well this is okay I guess

                                  Franzen-Excellent decision 

                                  Neilson, Kronwall, Weiss, 

                                  Danny DeKeyser- Probably the top 5 worst d men in the league. Good he locked him up. 

KENNY JUST RETIRE, YOU SUCK!

 

Abdelkader, Helm, Nielsen, and Daley shouldn't have been signed, at least not to the deals they got.

Ericsson was ok at the time, young-ish guy who looked like he was going to be a solid player for a long time, then he got hurt and stated playing scared.

Franzen wanted to sign, Hossa was looking around, you sign the guy who wants to be here before you lose them both.  As much as people complain about it, it'd be ten times worse if he had lost both.  If not for the concussions, Franzern would have been well worth that deal.

There was no reason to think that Weiss would hurt his groin, then not say anything and make it worse.  that's on him.  By the time he could play he was so far in Babcock's doghouse he was never getting out.

Kronwall was a #1 caliber D well before Lidstrom retired.  He was on the second pair to A: Balance it out and B: Lidstrom preferred a right shooting partner.  He wasn't elite, but he was solidly in the 6-15 range of best D in the NHL.  Considering he got 2nd pair minutes and 2nd PP time, he put up great numbers.  He was healthy when he signed his latest deal, then got hurt.

Dekeyser is a solid 2nd pair D.  They had to pay him or someone else would have.  His bad year has more to do with him being played in a role he's not suited for ob a team coached by an imbecile than his alleged lack of talent.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

24 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Abdelkader, Helm, Nielsen, and Daley shouldn't have been signed, at least not to the deals they got.

Ericsson was ok at the time, young-ish guy who looked like he was going to be a solid player for a long time, then he got hurt and stated playing scared.

Franzen wanted to sign, Hossa was looking around, you sign the guy who wants to be here before you lose them both.  As much as people complain about it, it'd be ten times worse if he had lost both.  If not for the concussions, Franzern would have been well worth that deal.

There was no reason to think that Weiss would hurt his groin, then not say anything and make it worse.  that's on him.  By the time he could play he was so far in Babcock's doghouse he was never getting out.

Kronwall was a #1 caliber D well before Lidstrom retired.  He was on the second pair to A: Balance it out and B: Lidstrom preferred a right shooting partner.  He wasn't elite, but he was solidly in the 6-15 range of best D in the NHL.  Considering he got 2nd pair minutes and 2nd PP time, he put up great numbers.  He was healthy when he signed his latest deal, then got hurt.

Dekeyser is a solid 2nd pair D.  They had to pay him or someone else would have.  His bad year has more to do with him being played in a role he's not suited for ob a team coached by an imbecile than his alleged lack of talent.

I agree with everything but the last part. Blashill is no imbecile. He's just not suited for the NHL/our team. He was great in the AHL, he's obviously in over his head now though. He shouldn't have been thrown right into a head coach position. But hindsight is 20/20 and he's getting the opportunity to finish out his contract, and turn things around. He also has a team full of scrubs, according to most people here, which he is not at fault for.  Lets not forget almost every poster on this forum wanted him to be the coach. 

[kickazz 5,459]

5 months left in Holland’s contract. Still no word on an extension. 

[OldTimeWinger 8]

Some of the best news we’ve had all season. Thank you very much, but its time to move on.

[Jacksoni 418]

He did well. A long time ago. Present day, not so much, although he had some hightlights such as the Brendan Smith trade.

He (KH) should have left 3-5 years ago - about when he started stating that the cap and draft would lead to parity.

Now, some thought is needed here, Ken Holland is correct about that - cap and the draft setup does set it up for most teams to fall on a line with minor variation long term statistically - if those two key variables were the only affecting ones in regards to winning percentage.
I would say that above two variables are the major ones, but by no means the only ones of course. Strategy, correct utilization, team 'spirit', a culture of winning does a lot as well.

But that's not my point, which is that when Ken Holland says cap and parity 'is what it is', I sense acceptance from him regarding this. Which is the last thing I want. .
I want a general manager either avoiding the question while doing whatever legal he/she/it can do to maximize our winning percentage

And herein lies a problem which goes for all teams. What can you do if you have to fall in line? I foresee corruption, bribes and false testimony because of the rules. The premise is simple. Win more, earn more. Rules doesn't allow it. So circumvent the rules, preferably under the hood. A mechanic as old as man itself.

 

[kliq 3,763]

My money is on him signing a 1 year extension, then the wings go all out for Stevie next year.

[chaps80 1,591]

If they do extend him, it better be for ONE season, and only to give the team time to find his replacement. If they aren’t already looking, it may happen. This doesn’t seem like the kind of franchise that would make a GM move in one offseason. 

I would absolutely welcome Yzerman coming back to Detroit as the GM. I’m just not as convinced as some that it would happen, even if offered. He spent his entire playing career in Detroit, then stuck around in the office for a bit already. Holland was part of it not wanting to move up, but I think he wanted a fresh start at the same time.

Look at Brodeur. Spent his entire career in NJ, played a few games in STL in his last season, then jumped into their front office. Fresh start, something different.

Yzerman may be over the Lightening job though and may want to take the job in Detroit. But I don’t think it’s THAT simple.

Edited February 10, 2018 by chaps80

[kliq 3,763]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

NoPe.

Stop Projecting Cady, he will likely re-sign.

Unless you are saying no to Stevie signing with us, which is not what i said would happen. I said they would try to sign Stevie. Either way, 0-2 today.

[Dabura 12,228]

[Dominator2005 558]

KH needs to leave.... new GM needs to come from outside (Draper is not the answer). If we can't have Yzerman (I don't see why we would be leaving in next 4-5 years as he built great team) then I would go after Julien Brisebois. 

Gallant was a perfect fit as a coach but we didn't made a move... 

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

If I were Stevie, I wouldn't want to be GM in Detroit.  What if he starts making decisions fans don't like?  Why go from hero to zero.  Something to think about.

[Dabura 12,228]

1 hour ago, Dominator2005 said:

(Draper is not the answer).

Welp, sucks for us, because he's getting the job.

[OldTimeWinger 8]

Regardless of whom GM & coach are, Detroit is in a rebuild ... don’t see anything substantial happening - like playoffs - for => 3 years. Treading water at or below 500 gets you nowhere near top 3 in draft and an immediate impact player. Accept the obvious and settle in

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, OldTimeWinger said:

Regardless of whom GM & coach are, Detroit is in a rebuild ... don’t see anything substantial happening - like playoffs - for => 3 years. Treading water at or below 500 gets you nowhere near top 3 in draft and an immediate impact player. Accept the obvious and settle in

Agreed. But Holland is playoff obsessed. Even when the team sucks and he desperately needs a high draft pick, his end goal is always “Trying to make a run”. A run at WHAT?! The second WC spot? Who cares! The series  will last 4-5 games, Wings will be sent packing. And then Holland has put the team wayyy outside the top ten in the draft. For NOTHING. Pointless!

If your not good enough to do damage in the playoffs, concentrate on getting the best pick possible ya idiot.