Who do you have as the top 5 Wings of all time..

[shocky2002 36]

In terms of on-ice ability, tbh?

1. Fedorov

2. Lidstrom

3. Yzerman

4. Datsyuk

5. Zetterberg

[Albeh 1]

1. Howe

2. Lidstrom

3. Sawchuck

4. Yzerman

5. Fedorov

[kliq 3,763]

Can you please explain your criteria? I would love to know how in your mind Zetterberg was a better player then Howe, when Howe won the hart trophy 6 times, led the league in scoring 6 times, and led the league in goals 5 times. All thing Zetterberg never came close to doing.

When comparing players of a different era, who have to assess them based on their play within their era. With that being said, I dont see how there is any argument that Zetterberg is a better player then Howe. I would bet money that even Zetterberg himself would laugh in your face if you told him that.

The only player on that list that even has an argument is Lidstrom because like Howe he dominated his position in his era. Fedorov, Yzerman, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg never came close to doing what Howe did.

[shocky2002 36]

Can you please explain your criteria? I would love to know how in your mind Zetterberg was a better player then Howe, when Howe won the hart trophy 6 times, led the league in scoring 6 times, and led the league in goals 5 times. All thing Zetterberg never came close to doing.

When comparing players of a different era, who have to assess them based on their play within their era. With that being said, I dont see how there is any argument that Zetterberg is a better player then Howe. I would bet money that even Zetterberg himself would laugh in your face if you told him that.

The only player on that list that even has an argument is Lidstrom because like Howe he dominated his position in his era. Fedorov, Yzerman, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg never came close to doing what Howe did.

I'm measuring in terms of pure on-ice ability. Players before the 70's don't have the speed and skill to compare with post-80's players. Not necessarily their fault, as they're held back by nutrition, training and equipment setbacks.

Your argument is pretty poor, IMO. His records leading the league in goals and hart trophy don't really mean much when the league had 6 teams at the time and only a handful of players. He really wouldn't make the roster for the '16 Wings.

[shocky2002 36]

My point is, put Zetterberg in the same rink as Howe, he would literally dance around him without sweat. Obviously, we also have to consider that he has evolutionary advantages over players from 50 years ago.

Edited July 3, 2016 by shocky2002

[xault 272]

Going by your rules.

1. Lidstrom

2. Fedorov

3. Yzerman

4. Shanahan

5. Datsyuk

[Bannedforlife 403]

Albeh has the correct answer

[WingsallTheway 383]

First post doesn't include Howe

Disregarded

[kickazz 5,459]

Putting every single player on a realistic time line with equal amount of training and in their primes? If all players were in their primes, trained in CURRENT DAY standards in the year 2016-

1. Howe

2. Yzerman

3. Fedorov

4. Lidstrom

5. Shanahan

First of all, the whole "Howe played hefore 80s" argument goes out the window if you bring him to present time and give him current day training.

Howe was ambidextrous which already puts him at an advantage. Howe could hit, score, set up. Howe was said to be naturally gifted in all aspects of the game there's nothing that would say he wouldn't be better than all the more recent Red Wings if he were to train in post 80s training regimen.

So enough with the "he's not good because he was pre 80s" bs argument. Inherent abilities have nothing to do with external exposure. External exposure molds inherent abilities.

I just brought Howe into current day. Now deal with it.

Edited July 3, 2016 by kickazz

[Internet.Unknown 422]

When the whole hockey world calls you "Mr. Hockey" I'm pretty sure you belong at the top of the list.

[blgillett 48]

In terms of on-ice ability, tbh?

1. Fedorov

2. Lidstrom

3. Yzerman

4. Datsyuk

5. Zetterberg

No Gordie Howe Lindsay Sawchuck Delvecchio

[kliq 3,763]

Your argument is pretty poor, IMO. His records leading the league in goals and hart trophy don't really mean much when the league had 6 teams at the time and only a handful of players. He really wouldn't make the roster for the '16 Wings.

6 teams has little to do with it, if anything with there only being 6 teams it was just that much harder to make an NHL team with so little opportunity and spots being available.

If you are trying to make that argument you should be bringing up the fact that now a days to be an elite player is harder because back then non North American players were not in the league, but you are still talking the best players in North America. You think if the NHL lost 24 teams right now, Crosby/Ovie would be out of a job or stop dominating lol. It would be guys like Abby and Helm that would be effected. Elite will be elite regardless of how many teams/players.

Maybe if you are talking guys like Abel and comparing them to a guy like Zetterberg I would see your point to a degree, but not even including Howe in your top 5 just shows me a complete disrespect of an entire era.

I hate it when people put players of that era on a pedestal being blinded by their "legend", but I also hate it when people completely dismiss players from that era being blinded by ignorance.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

My point is, put Zetterberg in the same rink as Howe, he would literally dance around him without sweat. Obviously, we also have to consider that he has evolutionary advantages over players from 50 years ago.

Lol that is a stupid argument. If you put zetterberg in the rink with your time travel machine back to when Howe was playing he wouldn't even come close to being as good. Or does your argument only work one way?

[amato 3,210]

1. Howe

2. Lidstrom

3. Yzerman

4. Delvecchio

5. Federov

[kliq 3,763]

Lol that is a stupid argument. If you put zetterberg in the rink with your time travel machine back to when Howe was playing he wouldn't even come close to being as good. Or does your argument only work one way?

Agreed. His ridiculous argument is using logic that would apply to a skills competition. I've said it before, you have to compare players to those who played in their era because if you dont the opinion will be bias and sound stupid which is what it sounds like putting Zetterberg above Howe.

Edited July 3, 2016 by kliq

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

1. Howe

2. Lidstrom

3. Yzerman

4. Delvecchio

5. Federov

If you put yzerman into the 2050 lineup in his prime he would get walked hard and be a bottom 6 player. Lids probably wouldn't be good in 2062

Agreed. His ridiculous argument is using logic that would apply to a skills competition. I've said it before, you have to compare players to those who played in their era because if you dont the opinion will be bias and sound stupid which is what it sounds like putting Zetterberg above Howe.

Completely agree

[shocky2002 36]

Lol that is a stupid argument. If you put zetterberg in the rink with your time travel machine back to when Howe was playing he wouldn't even come close to being as good. Or does your argument only work one way?

Wrong. Zetterberg would destroy that era with his speed and skill while using their big wooden sticks and s***ty skates. Stop being dumb.

Agreed. His ridiculous argument is using logic that would apply to a skills competition. I've said it before, you have to compare players to those who played in their era because if you dont the opinion will be bias and sound stupid which is what it sounds like putting Zetterberg above Howe.

My criteria was on-ice ability. Not legacy or accomplishments. On-ice ability is heavily dominated by skill competitions like skating, shot accuracy/velocity and puck handling. All of which Henrik Zetterberg in his prime excels at. Stop being wrong.

I hate it when people put players of that era on a pedestal being blinded by their "legend", but I also hate it when people completely dismiss players from that era being blinded by ignorance.

Then don't post stupid s*** like how Gordie led a 6 team league in scoring in his era. it's trivial garbage

Edited July 3, 2016 by shocky2002

[kliq 3,763]

Wrong. Zetterberg would destroy that era with his speed and skill while using their big wooden sticks and s***ty skates. Stop being dumb.

My criteria was on-ice ability. Not legacy or accomplishments. On-ice ability is heavily dominated by skill competitions like skating, shot accuracy/velocity and puck handling. All of which Henrik Zetterberg in his prime excels at. Stop being wrong.

Then don't post stupid s*** like how Gordie led a 6 team league in scoring in his era. it's trivial garbage

This is getting to Bill like for me to continue debating.

I will just say this, when I said that I dont like it when people are blind by legend, I was referring to instances when people say things like "Datsyuk is nowhere near the player Abel was". When you are talking Gordie Howe, and you call is 6 hart trophies and utter domination of an era "stupid s***" and "trivial garbage" either you are trolling, or just not intelligent enough to understand.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Wrong. Zetterberg would destroy that era with his speed and skill while using their big wooden sticks and s***ty skates. Stop being dumb.

My criteria was on-ice ability. Not legacy or accomplishments. On-ice ability is heavily dominated by skill competitions like skating, shot accuracy/velocity and puck handling. All of which Henrik Zetterberg in his prime excels at. Stop being wrong.

Then don't post stupid s*** like how Gordie led a 6 team league in scoring in his era. it's trivial garbage

I have no idea how this statement makes sense. If you lead the league, that's a huge accomplishment. The fact that it was a 6 team league doesn't make it less impressive. That's like saying it's no feat to lead scoring in olympic hockey. Some say the current league just waters down the talent pool (but think I think the growth of the game means the talent pool is larger to counteract the effect).

You're not making a list of all-time greatest, you're saying who would succeed in today's NHL while keeping the training regimes/techniques of their time. That's a crap shoot to me and I don't really know why that's worth considering. With the advance of the game, players are getting faster, and in better shape all the time. I think with that considered, I think you could argue that the most recent stars would therefore be the best. Or maybe Mrazek in the greatest wing goalie of all-time because the goaltending position has developed so much even since Osgood's prime.

Over different historical circumstances isn't a level playing field. Different rules, different equiptment, etc. I think greatness is dealing within the constraints of your time and excelling. Who did the best against their contemporaries is the greatest in my opinion.

[MabusIncarnate 5,355]

Opinions are opinions, but personal attacks and name calling is against site rules. We are teetering on the line here, i'm not going to edit anything, but keep it toned down and contribute intelligently. If your best rebuttal is "your opinion is stupid because I said so", or referring to someone's post as "stupid" or "garbage" then just refrain from posting altogether. This is considered "trolling" or intentionally trying to stir people up needlessly. Keep it in line. Thanks.

[MabusIncarnate 5,355]

On topic..my list is as follows.

1) Howe

2) Yzerman

3) Lidstrom

4) Sawchuk

5) Datsyuk

I'm torn between Datsyuk and Fedorov, I think I give Dats the edge for having the more complete all around game, but it's a difficult choice.

And for the record, Howe not making a list is borderline criminal. You can't entirely discredit a legend of the sport due to the time period he played in.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

Wrong. Zetterberg would destroy that era with his speed and skill while using their big wooden sticks and s***ty skates. Stop being dumb.

My criteria was on-ice ability. Not legacy or accomplishments. On-ice ability is heavily dominated by skill competitions like skating, shot accuracy/velocity and puck handling. All of which Henrik Zetterberg in his prime excels at. Stop being wrong.

Then don't post stupid s*** like how Gordie led a 6 team league in scoring in his era. it's trivial garbage

You're kidding right?!? Why would z be using modern technology and fitness regimes if he was going to play in Gordie's era? And vice versa if Gordie got to play now he would get all the modern technology and fitness so he would still be a star. Z is in no way physically or mentally better than Howe. Sorry you are just flat out wrong.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Any list of all time best Wings that doesn't have both Howe and Sawchuk on it are invalid.

Howe

Lidstrom

Yzerman

Sawchuk

Multi-way tie for 5 between Fedorov, Lindsay, Abel, Syd Howe, Red Kelly, and a few others.

[kickazz 5,459]

On topic..my list is as follows.

1) Howe

2) Yzerman

3) Lidstrom

4) Sawchuk

5) Datsyuk

I'm torn between Datsyuk and Fedorov, I think I give Dats the edge for having the more complete all around game, but it's a difficult choice.

I don't think it's that close between them to be honest. I think Dats just has the "WoW" factor because of his dangles. Truly Fedorov was the best player in the league for a good 2-3 years.

Feds was a 50 goal scorer, had more than 10 game winning goals in so many seasons. He also had 31 short handed goals! (holy crap) And the fact that Bowman was able to put Fedorov on defense (where he did really well) truly shows how good he was as a two way player. Also I think there was a time when Fedorov was one of the best faceoff guys in the league as well.

Not to mention Fedorov was the fastest hockey player in the world for a long time. A lot of these factors are something Dats lacked imo.

I think if there's any player that I've witnessed as the most complete player, my vote would go to Fedorov. However I'd rank Yzerman before him simply because Stevie was a better playoff performer. Which at the end of the day.. is what matters most.

Edited July 3, 2016 by kickazz

[MabusIncarnate 5,355]

I don't think it's that close between them to be honest. I think Dats just has the "WoW" factor because of his dangles. Truly Fedorov was the best player in the league for a good 2-3 years.

Feds was a 50 goal scorer, had more than 10 game winning goals in so many seasons. He also had 31 short handed goals! (holy crap) And the fact that Bowman was able to put Fedorov on defense (where he did really well) truly shows how good he was as a two way player. Also I think there was a time when Fedorov was one of the best faceoff guys in the league as well.

Not to mention Fedorov was the fastest hockey player in the world for a long time. A lot of these factors are something Dats lacked imo.

I think if there's any player that I've witnessed as the most complete player, my vote would go to Fedorov. However I'd rank Yzerman before him simply because Stevie was a better playoff performer. Which at the end of the day.. is what matters most.

I agree with most of this, but i'm also putting into consideration the team that Fedorov was around, compared to Datsyuk, especially in these later years. Fedorov thrived in a cap-free league with a lot of elite players around him. He also eventually moved on to a different NHL team whereas Datsyuk was a career Red Wing.

It's tough as a fan of both players, but I liked Datsyuk more overall and I think that sways my decision a bit also.