Free agents this off season

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I'd rather have Holland try to find an upgrade on the trade front as opposed to the free agent market. Just not a lot of interesting names, add in the high salaries and you might end up with another Weiss.

Rather do a trade if possible

Ward williams upfront could be nice additions

Back end I think a trade would be in our best interest considering the defensemen available are mostly 3rd pairing guys which I'm sure could help but we need a top 4

That's fairly spurious. Detroit was doing great before they got Cole and Zidlicky, after which they struggled. But it would be wrong to insinuate that Cole and Zidlicky were the cause of the drop off.

A 60 point player who gets injured after the trade and then fails to regain is pre-injury form?

I think you should stop coming up with excuses for weiss ... Let it go

He's a bust

Had like one 60 pt yr ... He was never gonna be a 60-70pt 2nd line guy here ... Took a chance and didn't work

Edited May 1, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[wings87 1,290]

That's fairly spurious. Detroit was doing great before they got Cole and Zidlicky, after which they struggled. But it would be wrong to insinuate that Cole and Zidlicky were the cause of the drop off.

A 60 point player who gets injured after the trade and then fails to regain is pre-injury form?

Try a player from a bad team putting up points in meaningless games. Nobody could have predicted his awesome collapse, but giving 30 year olds long term deals in the new cap Era is bound to cause problems.

Look at the free agent contacts the past several years, most have been over payments. Big E even got an inflated contact, because the market got out of hand. Free agency is rarely the answer to a teams problems, and that goes for most sports.

[kipwinger 8,675]

Rather do a trade if possible

Ward williams upfront could be nice additions

Back end I think a trade would be in our best interest considering the defensemen available are mostly 3rd pairing guys which I'm sure could help but we need a top 4

I think you should stop coming up with excuses for weiss ... Let it go

He's a bust

Had like one 60 pt yr ... He was never gonna be a 60-70pt 2nd line guy here ... Took a chance and didn't work

I agree he is a bust. But neither you, nor Ken Holland, knew that at the time of the trade. People act like Holland traded for a player who was already a bust. Which isn't true. His sports hernia, failure to do anything about it, subsequent surgery, and improper rehab were the death knell of Stephen Weiss' career. All of which happened after the trade.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I agree he is a bust. But neither you, nor Ken Holland, knew that at the time of the trade. People act like Holland traded for a player who was already a bust. Which isn't true. His sports hernia, failure to do anything about it, subsequent surgery, and improper rehab were the death knell of Stephen Weiss' career. All of which happened after the trade.

I wonder if, back in 2002, Wings fans knew just how bad Weiss would actually end up being here in 2015

[PredsFanTheBayouState 263]

I don't watch the Preds and I've seen reports that Franson hasn't worked out at all and I've been curious about this. Can you shed some light on this? Who did he pair up with? Maybe just give some impressions if you don't mind.

Is it just that the team fell off when he came in so he's a scapegoat or did he specifically play badly?

He finished the regular season with Ellis on the third defensive pairing.

[kipwinger 8,675]

Try a player from a bad team putting up points in meaningless games. Nobody could have predicted his awesome collapse, but giving 30 year olds long term deals in the new cap Era is bound to cause problems.

Look at the free agent contacts the past several years, most have been over payments. Big E even got an inflated contact, because the market got out of hand. Free agency is rarely the answer to a teams problems, and that goes for most sports.

My point was simply that you can't shy way from acquiring players on the off chance that they'll later get hurt and never be as good again.

Stephen Weiss is not some cautionary tale. He's a modern day Brent Gilchrist. I didn't hear anybody saying "No Ken Holland, don't sign Marian Hossa in the offseason. What if he's another Brent Gilchrist?"

That would be dumb. It would be equally dumb to avoid improving your team, in any way possible, because of the experience you had with Stephen Weiss.

[Legendary D In 03 50]

Speaking of Brent Gilchrist, when's the last time anybody on this forum has seen GilchristFOREVER, or Gillyfo, as he was colloquially known?

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I agree he is a bust. But neither you, nor Ken Holland, knew that at the time of the trade. People act like Holland traded for a player who was already a bust. Which isn't true. His sports hernia, failure to do anything about it, subsequent surgery, and improper rehab were the death knell of Stephen Weiss' career. All of which happened after the trade.

Actually I said it from day 1 we got him that I hated the signing and he was overrated (and I got a lot of s*** for it by some) and... Injury or not I knew he wouldn't work here

In Florida he got a lot of ice time cause florida panthers as a franchise was a joke so he'd obviously get a lot of ice time and ppl minutes .... A lot of players playing for lesser teams just cause they rack up some pts doesn't mean they'll do better In other places

That being said I can admit when I'm wrong ... After last year I said I didn't believe in glendening because in our glory days the grind line always came up huge and scored big goals and got around 10 per yr ... And luke went on a stretch of like 70 games with nothing

I'm glad to say he proved me wrong and will be a big pieces to our future

Edited May 1, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[wings87 1,290]

My point was simply that you can't shy way from acquiring players on the off chance that they'll later get hurt and never be as good again.

Stephen Weiss is not some cautionary tale. He's a modern day Brent Gilchrist. I didn't hear anybody saying "No Ken Holland, don't sign Marian Hossa in the offseason. What if he's another Brent Gilchrist?"

That would be dumb. It would be equally dumb to avoid improving your team, in any way possible, because of the experience you had with Stephen Weiss.

Wasn't using Weiss as a cautionary tale, just as an example of the pitfall with over paying for a guy based on the market in the cap era.

There is really no top player available this year, and other then Parise and Suter, the last several free agent classes have been pretty dry on top talent. Using your example spending big on a top player like Hossa is warrented. Spending top money on Joel Ward is foolish.

Which is why I'd rather make a trade to upgrade then, spend a ton on a player like Green just because he's one of the better on the FA market.

Edited May 1, 2015 by wings87

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Wasn't using Weiss as a cautionary tale, just as an example of the pitfall with over paying for a guy based on the market in the cap era.

There is really no top player available this year, and other then Parise and Suter, the last several free agent classes have been pretty dry on top talent. Using your example spending big on a top player like Hossa is warrented. Spending top money on Joel Ward is foolish.

I'd give ward 2 yrs 3.5-4 ... But my money's on him resigning with Washington

[wings87 1,290]

I'd give ward 2 yrs 3.5-4 ... But my money's on him resigning with Washington

That's what I'm taking about, in this day and age, Ward will probably end up with a 4 year deal.

[kipwinger 8,675]

Wasn't using Weiss as a cautionary tale, just as an example of the pitfall with over paying for a guy based on the market in the cap era.

There is really no top player available this year, and other then Parise and Suter, the last several free agent classes have been pretty dry on top talent. Using your example spending big on a top player like Hossa is warrented. Spending top money on Joel Ward is foolish.

Thinking that Joel Ward would cost "top money" is even more foolish. Nobody thinks he's worth Zach Praise money. But if you think he will cost that much I've got to question your notion of value.

[wings87 1,290]

Thinking that Joel Ward would cost "top money" is even more foolish. Nobody thinks he's worth Zach Praise money. But if you think he will cost that much I've got to question your notion of value.

Nobody is comparing Ward and Parise. That'd be stupid. Pay attention, I mean that in a nice way not adversarial, in case you weren't paying attention. Here's the point, teams have money to spend (some will have to spend for cap floor) and because the market lacks top players- average to below average players will recieve more money. With low supply and high demand-you get Jovanski type deals. I'd be shocked if Ward doesn't get a 4 year deal.

[kipwinger 8,675]

OK, just to clarify would you please explain how much YOU think Joel Ward is actually worth, and then explain how much you think he will actually get on the open market. In term, and dollar amounts, please.

I don't want to be in the weeds regarding what you're saying, but this is starting to remind me of how everyone said Matt Niskanen would make close to 7 million per year, when in reality he made less than 6.

[wings87 1,290]

OK, just to clarify would you please explain how much YOU think Joel Ward is actually worth, and then explain how much you think he will actually get on the open market. In term, and dollar amounts, please.

I don't want to be in the weeds regarding what you're saying, but this is starting to remind me of how everyone said Matt Niskanen would make close to 7 million per year, when in reality he made less than 6.

His last 2 years have been the best of his career and he's already making 3 mil so a raise is forthcoming. My guess is he'll get 4 years at around 3.5- 4 mil. But even if it's a 3 year deal, the guy is already 34, do you really want another aging player making 4 mil? It might seem Like I'm picking on Ward, I'm really not though. I'm just using him as an example of a decent player that will get paid more then his age and performance dictates, because of a lack of top talent on the FA market. Same goes for Green, and I'd rather stay clear.

As far as his worth, I'd say at age 34 he should get a 2 year deal for 3 mil. Since I don't see him, getting any better with age.

Edited May 1, 2015 by wings87

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Ward will get close to a million raise ... I'd personally give him 2 yrs maybe 3 but I'm sure playing with ovechkin and backstrom and seeing how good he fits in washington I don't suspect he will leave and will get 3 yrs around 12

Sucks cause I think he's the kind of guy we need .... Seeing nyquist and all the other smallish forward going for pucks against Boyle and tb's other big bodies a 230 pd body at 6'2-6'4(can't recall his height) that hits a lot and excels on the playoffs is what this team needs

[kipwinger 8,675]

His last 2 years have been the best of his career and he's already making 3 mil so a raise is forthcoming. My guess is he'll get 4 years at around 3.5- 4 mil. But even if it's a 3 year deal, the guy is already 34, do you really want another aging player making 4 mil? It might seem Like I'm picking on Ward, I'm really not though. I'm just using him as an example of a decent player that will get paid more then his age and performance dictates, because of a lack of top talent on the FA market. Same goes for Green, and I'd rather stay clear.

As far as his worth, I'd say at age 34 he should get a 2 year deal for 3 mil. Since I don't see him, getting any better with age.

Here's a list of forwards who got that kind of term and salary last year (3 year @ 4 mil, 4 years @ 3 mil, or in between). I'm not saying you're wrong. But if you look at the list and think he's about as valuable as these guys, then it's not really an overpayment. If he's not as valuable as these guys (roughly) then he'd be overpaid (assuming that's the contact he actually gets).

Ales Hemsky

Nikolay Kulemin

Brian Gionta

Ryan Johansen

Milan Michalek

Lars Eller

Jussi Jokinen

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

I guarantee the wings make a big trade if Babcock re-signs, I'm sure it will be a stipulation In the contract

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I guarantee the wings make a big trade if Babcock re-signs, I'm sure it will be a stipulation In the contract

Agreed ... I do think it's almost a certainty Phaneuf will end up here ... Grand Rapids win then Babs will travel for game 5 with holland and I'm sure a lot will be said on that trip

Babs also said he got into an argument with his wife ... Can't help but think that had to do with the mention of Edmonton (reminds me of pronger and his wife lol)

Seriously doubt his wife will give the okay to go to Edmonton and spend -40 days over there ... I'd say there's no way he goes there

Only teams I'd see Babs leaving us for would be a San Jose/Pittsburgh/saint louis type situation

[wings87 1,290]

Here's a list of forwards who got that kind of term and salary last year (3 year @ 4 mil, 4 years @ 3 mil, or in between). I'm not saying you're wrong. But if you look at the list and think he's about as valuable as these guys, then it's not really an overpayment. If he's not as valuable as these guys (roughly) then he'd be overpaid (assuming that's the contact he actually gets).

Ales Hemsky

Nikolay Kulemin

Brian Gionta

Ryan Johansen

Milan Michalek

Lars Eller

Jussi Jokinen

Gionta, Hemsky, and Jokinen are examples of over paying in my opinion . The other guys are on decent contracts, plus most are younger. Ward would probably fall somewhere in between value wise. His age though is the real problem for me. He's a big physical player, and those guys don't tend to age all that well. I'd be nervous giving him a 3-4 year deal. I get why you like him and, If we are talking a 1-2 year deal? Then by all means. But Ward is coming off his best 2 years, so his value is inflated especially if the Caps have a long playoff run. There's no way he'd accept anything else then 3. I also highly doubt he'd leave the Caps.

[Motown4013 350]

I think of guys that are still under contract. I see a trade as our best scenario, especially for teams that are cap heavy. Certainly we have some young talent and some depth that we could shed to get a guy that isn't happy ( or the organization is not happy with) I am thinking of Eric staal who is only 30 and is slowly dying in Carolina. I would also love to have a guy like Wayne Simmons from Philly.

We need to address the blue line first though.....not sure if the Dion trade has any merit ( for Weiss going that way with Smith) but something needs to happen back there. I always really, really liked Tyler Myers and I feel like we missed the boat on him.

[YouFoo 41]

I think of guys that are still under contract. I see a trade as our best scenario, especially for teams that are cap heavy. Certainly we have some young talent and some depth that we could shed to get a guy that isn't happy ( or the organization is not happy with) I am thinking of Eric staal who is only 30 and is slowly dying in Carolina. I would also love to have a guy like Wayne Simmons from Philly.

We need to address the blue line first though.....not sure if the Dion trade has any merit ( for Weiss going that way with Smith) but something needs to happen back there. I always really, really liked Tyler Myers and I feel like we missed the boat on him.

thinking of guys still under contract, whats your thoughts on Mike Richards? With LA's cap troubles we could get him for cheap, and he is know for playing well in the playoffs

[marcaractac 3,963]

Agreed ... I do think it's almost a certainty Phaneuf will end up here ... Grand Rapids win then Babs will travel for game 5 with holland and I'm sure a lot will be said on that trip

Babs also said he got into an argument with his wife ... Can't help but think that had to do with the mention of Edmonton (reminds me of pronger and his wife lol)

Seriously doubt his wife will give the okay to go to Edmonton and spend -40 days over there ... I'd say there's no way he goes there

Only teams I'd see Babs leaving us for would be a San Jose/Pittsburgh/saint louis type situation

If this happens and we keep Babs, it will be a great summer even if nothing else were to happen. We have depth up front, getting Dion here would give us depth on the blueline, and we have a great goalie tandem. I really do think it would make for a potential "go all in" type deal at the trade deadline.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

thinking of guys still under contract, whats your thoughts on Mike Richards? With LA's cap troubles we could get him for cheap, and he is know for playing well in the playoffs

Mike Richards was sent down to the AHL this year. We could have had him for nothing. he had 5 goals in 50+ games and carries 4 mill caphit for many years to come. We don't want him

Edited May 2, 2015 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

If this happens and we keep Babs, it will be a great summer even if nothing else were to happen. We have depth up front, getting Dion here would give us depth on the blueline, and we have a great goalie tandem. I really do think it would make for a potential "go all in" type deal at the trade deadline.

To be honest id prefer for us to add another 1-2 big body guys upfront now than wait till trade deadline unless it's someone too good up just have to go for since at the deadline the prices will be just ridiculous

I know we can't predict injuries but the fact is we gave up janmark for someone who barely played

I believe we got a ton of depth and guys we can recall in Grand Rapids incase of an injury for a few guys ... What I wanna see happen is us add a guy or 2 upfront who are big bodies who can skate and hit, obviously scoring goals would help but just a guy like that would help + gotta think/hope jurco will be better and others like sheahan