Pulkkinen sent back to GR

[Yzerfan87 146]

Worked out pretty well for us last time didn't it? Tatar and nyquist might of been dealt away if not for all those injuries ... If I recall they were both rumored to be trade bait around that time

Yea, but Goose and Tatar earned their spots when we had injuries. Pulk hasn't proven anything in the time he's been up. Sure, he hasn't had as much time, but as it is, he's not ready for full time NHL. We don't have a spot for him to take, and he didn't beat out any top 6 players. Pulk needs to beat one of Goose, Tatar or Helm to have a top 6 spot. He's not even close to any of them.

[kipwinger 8,732]

I'm really baffled by this suggestion that guys should get playing time based on their potential and not based upon what they've earned. Teemu Pulkkinen got a look on the scoring lines because at lower levels he scored well. He's being sent to the minors because he didn't do anything with those opportunities. I'm sure the coaching staff will give him some feedback, tell him what to work on, and he'll get another shot later. But some of you think he should be given MORE opportunities and not less? That's not how accountability works.

It seems like some folks would rather see their favorite players, rather than the better players, given time. That's not how good organizations work. If you're a fan of giving promoting guys based on their potential, and not their production, I'd recommend watching the Oilers. I'm sure they need the support.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Kip, I can't help but think this is somewhat directed at me... And to that I say, I completely agree, players should absolutely earn their ice time. But this situation is completely different from the Jurco one. Notice how Pulkkinen was not put in a position he is not well suited? Instead of demoting him to the 4th line, where he most certainly would not produce much, they opted to send him down to the minors. I am and always have been 100% pro sending Jurco back down to Grand Rapids. I am not okay with Jurco playing a grinder type role when that is not his game.

[Yzerfan87 146]

Kip, I can't help but think this is somewhat directed at me... And to that I say, I completely agree, players should absolutely earn their ice time. But this situation is completely different from the Jurco one. Notice how Pulkkinen was not put in a position he is not well suited? Instead of demoting him to the 4th line, where he most certainly would not produce much, they opted to send him down to the minors. I am and always have been 100% pro sending Jurco back down to Grand Rapids. I am not okay with Jurco playing a grinder type role when that is not his game.

Here's the way I look at a lot of Bab's choices. Why does a shutdown defenseman (ddk) play on the pp, but a offensive defenseman plays more pk (Smith). Why put bottom 6 players at the top and top 6 at the bottom? Babs is forcing these players to be better all around. Ddk on the pp is improving his offense, Smith on the pk is better defensively. Abby in top 6 is better offensively. Jurco in the bottom focuses on his defense and the occasional offense. Babs is all about defense first, so players that are poor defensively tend to be put in spots where they need to play defense.

[kipwinger 8,732]

Kip, I can't help but think this is somewhat directed at me... And to that I say, I completely agree, players should absolutely earn their ice time. But this situation is completely different from the Jurco one. Notice how Pulkkinen was not put in a position he is not well suited? Instead of demoting him to the 4th line, where he most certainly would not produce much, they opted to send him down to the minors. I am and always have been 100% pro sending Jurco back down to Grand Rapids. I am not okay with Jurco playing a grinder type role when that is not his game.

It was directed at you, and nyquististhefuture.

I'll be honest, I don't really care what your preferences are. He's where he needs to be, learning what he needs to be learning. When he starts scoring again, he'll get more opportunity on scoring lines. Just like Abby did. Just like Helm did.

Babcock on Jurco:

Jurco had gone 25 games without a goal heading into the Detroit Red Wings' contest at Dallas Saturday night. His coach is stressing that he shouldn't be pressing.

"The big thing is he doesn't even need to worry about it, he's got to play real well without (the puck) and forecheck and work and then everything else will happen," Babcock said. "That to me is the biggest priority. His competitiveness, his work ethic, his forecheck, his ability to play without it. All those things will lead to offense. Let's look after that part first."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/02/red_wings_believe_offense_will.html

Here's the way I look at a lot of Bab's choices. Why does a shutdown defenseman (ddk) play on the pp, but a offensive defenseman plays more pk (Smith). Why put bottom 6 players at the top and top 6 at the bottom? Babs is forcing these players to be better all around. Ddk on the pp is improving his offense, Smith on the pk is better defensively. Abby in top 6 is better offensively. Jurco in the bottom focuses on his defense and the occasional offense. Babs is all about defense first, so players that are poor defensively tend to be put in spots where they need to play defense.

Jurco isn't poor defensively. His defense is what's keeping him in the lineup. If he was bad defensively he'd be sitting in GR with Pulkkinen.

Edited March 3, 2015 by kipwinger

[Buppy 1,720]

Fair enough. I'll concede. He needs to work on getting off better shots, as the blocks and missing attest. Not necessarily quicker shots.

To clarify, he's not actually missing the net unusually often. ~22% of shot attempts, which is not out of line with other goal scorers. The low shooting% is factoring only shots that are actually on net. So he's having a slightly high % of shots saved, rather than missing.

And also remember it's a small sample size, thus easily skewed. He's had two shots that he put basically right through the goalie, but just didn't bounce quite the right way to make it into the net. Hit a post at least once too. A little more luck and one of those goes in, it bumps his shooting% from 7.5 to 11. It's not like he's shooting 2% for half a year. There isn't really enough readily available information to say his shot selection is particularly poor. Thoguh of course that doesn't mean he can't still work on it.

And I don't think anyone has suggested that Pulkkinen should stay in the lineup, but I don't think he's being sent down because of a lack of production. He was an injury replacement, and now we have someone who should be able to fill that role better. But at some point, you have to put guys in situations where they can grow, even if you might have a better option for the short term. I wouldn't object to going with Pulkkinen over Weiss, even though it makes us a bit worse atm, it may pay off down the road. But I also don't have any problem with him waiting for next season.

[kipwinger 8,732]

To clarify, he's not actually missing the net unusually often. ~22% of shot attempts, which is not out of line with other goal scorers. The low shooting% is factoring only shots that are actually on net. So he's having a slightly high % of shots saved, rather than missing.

And also remember it's a small sample size, thus easily skewed. He's had two shots that he put basically right through the goalie, but just didn't bounce quite the right way to make it into the net. Hit a post at least once too. A little more luck and one of those goes in, it bumps his shooting% from 7.5 to 11. It's not like he's shooting 2% for half a year. There isn't really enough readily available information to say his shot selection is particularly poor. Thoguh of course that doesn't mean he can't still work on it.

And I don't think anyone has suggested that Pulkkinen should stay in the lineup, but I don't think he's being sent down because of a lack of production. He was an injury replacement, and now we have someone who should be able to fill that role better. But at some point, you have to put guys in situations where they can grow, even if you might have a better option for the short term. I wouldn't object to going with Pulkkinen over Weiss, even though it makes us a bit worse atm, it may pay off down the road. But I also don't have any problem with him waiting for next season.

With regard to the bolded, I was referring to the snarky "it worked out well for us with Nyquist and Tatar" comment posted by someone else above. I know you weren't arguing for keeping him in the lineup.

And I agree with your other statement. I'd imagine, if this were the early part of the season, he might get a longer look despite his lack of production. But at this time of year you really shouldn't be worried about the development of an injury call up.

I'm not sure that I agree with you in saying that "he's not being sent down for lack of production". He was called up for exactly one reason, as the rest of his game isn't anything to write home about. If he's not doing that thing, then he's got very little value to the club. But given that Jurco can be sent to GR, and Andersson is a frequent healthy scratch, I'd imagine they'd make room for him if he was contributing regularly. The fact that he isn't just makes the decision easier.

[Yzerfan87 146]

It was directed at you, and nyquististhefuture.

I'll be honest, I don't really care what your preferences are. He's where he needs to be, learning what he needs to be learning. When he starts scoring again, he'll get more opportunity on scoring lines. Just like Abby did. Just like Helm did.

Babcock on Jurco:

Jurco had gone 25 games without a goal heading into the Detroit Red Wings' contest at Dallas Saturday night. His coach is stressing that he shouldn't be pressing.

"The big thing is he doesn't even need to worry about it, he's got to play real well without (the puck) and forecheck and work and then everything else will happen," Babcock said. "That to me is the biggest priority. His competitiveness, his work ethic, his forecheck, his ability to play without it. All those things will lead to offense. Let's look after that part first."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/02/red_wings_believe_offense_will.html

Jurco isn't poor defensively. His defense is what's keeping him in the lineup. If he was bad defensively he'd be sitting in GR with Pulkkinen.

Maybe not poor defensively, but I mean that he needs to get better when he doesn't have the puck. The quote grin Babs you posted basically said what I meant

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Yea, but Goose and Tatar earned their spots when we had injuries. Pulk hasn't proven anything in the time he's been up. Sure, he hasn't had as much time, but as it is, he's not ready for full time NHL. We don't have a spot for him to take, and he didn't beat out any top 6 players. Pulk needs to beat one of Goose, Tatar or Helm to have a top 6 spot. He's not even close to any of them.

When we had injuries ... If we didn't have that happen though Tatar and nyquist could be elsewhere lighting it up and we'd be hating on holland ... I didn't say he should be in the top 6 i think he could provide some offence on the bottom 6 in the playoffs playing against other teams bottom lines and d pairs

Anyways it's a mood point now since he's gone but I'd personally would of kept him in ... Nothing else he can do in the ahl

[Buppy 1,720]

...

I'm not sure that I agree with you in saying that "he's not being sent down for lack of production". He was called up for exactly one reason, as the rest of his game isn't anything to write home about. If he's not doing that thing, then he's got very little value to the club. But given that Jurco can be sent to GR, and Andersson is a frequent healthy scratch, I'd imagine they'd make room for him if he was contributing regularly. The fact that he isn't just makes the decision easier.

Lack of production in the sense that if he had 8 goals right now, yeah, maybe they'd find a spot for him. And if he had 38 they'd keep him over Datsyuk. But I don't think it warrants the negative connotation, as if he's being punished for sucking.

2 goals in 12 games is not particularly bad given his limited role. Hell, it's not all that far from where Helm and Abby are, and for the most part better than what we've gotten from other players in similar situations. Nor is it accurate to say goals are the only things that should be considered a contribution. He is generating offensive opportunities. Over the limited sample size, and albeit a significantly sheltered role, he's actually been better than most on the team.

But he isn't a center, isn't big or physical, not particularly good so far along the boards or in the corners, nor great on defense. Two-thirds of the forwards are filling a different role than what he provides, and two of the remaining four are our two top goal scorers. The only real options for him to replace are Weiss and Jurco. Weiss has been very good for his limited role, and Jurco does have a dimension that Pulkkinen lacks.

Basically, the positives of others on the team should not be construed as a negative against Pulkkinen's play.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

It was directed at you, and nyquististhefuture.

I'll be honest, I don't really care what your preferences are. He's where he needs to be, learning what he needs to be learning. When he starts scoring again, he'll get more opportunity on scoring lines. Just like Abby did. Just like Helm did.

Babcock on Jurco:

Jurco had gone 25 games without a goal heading into the Detroit Red Wings' contest at Dallas Saturday night. His coach is stressing that he shouldn't be pressing.

"The big thing is he doesn't even need to worry about it, he's got to play real well without (the puck) and forecheck and work and then everything else will happen," Babcock said. "That to me is the biggest priority. His competitiveness, his work ethic, his forecheck, his ability to play without it. All those things will lead to offense. Let's look after that part first."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/02/red_wings_believe_offense_will.html

Jurco isn't poor defensively. His defense is what's keeping him in the lineup. If he was bad defensively he'd be sitting in GR with Pulkkinen.

I understand what your saying kip but I'm looking ahead to the playoffs and how a guy like him on the bottom lines could really provide us with some much needed offence in key moments

Your right he hasn't done much but in stats but he has had chances and guys like jurco and even zetterberg I believe went on 10-20 games stretches with no goals (not comparing him to zetterberg for one second just giving an example)

Again get what your saying I was thinking of the bigger picture in the playoffs where every goal you can get is valuable and having a guy like pulkkinen could rather help

Edited March 4, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I don't see where Pulkinnen fits into a healthy lineup, unless Jurco gets sent to GR.

[kipwinger 8,732]

Lack of production in the sense that if he had 8 goals right now, yeah, maybe they'd find a spot for him. And if he had 38 they'd keep him over Datsyuk. But I don't think it warrants the negative connotation, as if he's being punished for sucking.

2 goals in 12 games is not particularly bad given his limited role. Hell, it's not all that far from where Helm and Abby are, and for the most part better than what we've gotten from other players in similar situations. Nor is it accurate to say goals are the only things that should be considered a contribution. He is generating offensive opportunities. Over the limited sample size, and albeit a significantly sheltered role, he's actually been better than most on the team.

But he isn't a center, isn't big or physical, not particularly good so far along the boards or in the corners, nor great on defense. Two-thirds of the forwards are filling a different role than what he provides, and two of the remaining four are our two top goal scorers. The only real options for him to replace are Weiss and Jurco. Weiss has been very good for his limited role, and Jurco does have a dimension that Pulkkinen lacks.

Basically, the positives of others on the team should not be construed as a negative against Pulkkinen's play.

Sooo? He doesn't bring much to the table other than scoring, and since he isn't doing much of that he's being sent back to GR? I know. I agree. That's what I said to begin with.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 goals already for pulkkinen and half the game left

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

2 goals already for pulkkinen and half the game left

Hell yeah.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Hat trick

[puckloo39 5,686]

[kipwinger 8,732]

Look whose hat trick earned them a trip to Burger King!!!! Who's a good boy?

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Off topic a sec ... I just noticed grand rapids won 7-1 that would of been 4 shut outs in 6 games for mrazek right?

Edited March 5, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[shaeb30 10]

I was at the game tonight... not to take ANYTHING away from his great performance tonight, but 2 of his 3 goals were standard saves for an NHL goalie. Not to mention his 3rd goal was an unscreened slapshot from a step inside the blue line, against a replacement goalie who had never seen the ice as a professional. He needs to continue to find new ways to use his booming shot.

Off topic a sec ... I just noticed grand rapids won 7-1 that would of been 4 shut outs in 6 games for mrazek right?

Also would have been 3 consecutive. He gave up a weak goal about 2 minutes into the game though. Recovered nicely though and made some really nice saves throughout the rest of the game.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I was at the game tonight... not to take ANYTHING away from his great performance tonight, but 2 of his 3 goals were standard saves for an NHL goalie. Not to mention his 3rd goal was an unscreened slapshot from a step inside the blue line, against a replacement goalie who had never seen the ice as a professional. He needs to continue to find new ways to use his booming shot.

Also would have been 3 consecutive. He gave up a weak goal about 2 minutes into the game though. Recovered nicely though and made some really nice saves throughout the rest of the game.

So it would of been 4 in his last 6 as well though? Damn ... Kids great

[amato 3,210]

Pulkkinen is at that spot where he's too good for the ahl and not quite ready to face the nhls top competition, like he would be in the top six role he's projected for.

I think next season we should start with three scoring lines and pulk will be on the third line. That seems ideal at this point, imo.

[Nightfall 871]

Pulkkinen is a lot like where Nyquist was a couple years ago. Nyquist was awesome in the year before the calder cup win. Even the year they won the Calder Cup he was magnificent. Pulkkinen is going to adjust and be a solid NHL player.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Exactly. He will get his chance to learn to play at the NHL level next season.

In the meantime he'll build up his hat collection. Let's put it this way...he has a few.

[germanwing 154]

Detroit Red Wings ‏@DetroitRedWings

UPDATE: Teemu Pulkkinen has been recalled from the @griffinshockey