Would a real gritty fighter help or hurt this team?

[babygorilla 1]

I would love to see a fighter brought to the team. The last several years there are several "hybrid" type players who have the grit, and everyday player ability to stay with the team. What do you think about a solid fighter on the team?

[CenterIce 83]

I would love to see a fighter brought to the team. The last several years there are several "hybrid" type players who have the grit, and everyday player ability to stay with the team. What do you think about a solid fighter on the team?

You can't have a player who just sits on the bench for all but 5 minutes of a game anymore. Everyone has to contribute. If a guy can fight, but chip in some goals and assists, every now and than, bring him on, but if all he does is fight, there is no room on the roster. You wouldn't want him to be in every game, because he wouldn't always be needed. And, you can't always predict exactly which games he would be needed.

[magicaldatsyuk 6]

we dont need another brad may

[stevkrause 1,247]

You can't have a player who just sits on the bench for all but 5 minutes of a game anymore. Everyone has to contribute. If a guy can fight, but chip in some goals and assists, every now and than, bring him on, but if all he does is fight, there is no room on the roster. You wouldn't want him to be in every game, because he wouldn't always be needed. And, you can't always predict exactly which games he would be needed.

Exactly - we definitely need a player on this team that will stand up for his teammates and hold other teams accountable, but at the same token, he needs to be defensively responsible and still chip in a couple points... I would LOVE to see a guy like Clarkson from NJ here, but I don't see them letting him get away, as he has potential to be a true power forward who can get you 20+ goals a year in addition to his toughness... with that said, I think Arron Asham, Eric Nystrom or Brad Winchester would all be good additions to this team for what they offer, depending on the price tag...

[babygorilla 1]

Exactly - we definitely need a player on this team that will stand up for his teammates and hold other teams accountable, but at the same token, he needs to be defensively responsible and still chip in a couple points... I would LOVE to see a guy like Clarkson from NJ here, but I don't see them letting him get away, as he has potential to be a true power forward who can get you 20+ goals a year in addition to his toughness... with that said, I think Arron Asham, Eric Nystrom or Brad Winchester would all be good additions to this team for what they offer, depending on the price tag...

Armstrong and Asham are the two that I have in mind. Its been reported the wings have had Armstrong in their sight the last 3-4 off-seasons. I would like them to snag him this off-season for 2-3 years. A scrapper that will fight with the best of them, has great play making ability, and can score a solid 20-25 a year.

[stevkrause 1,247]

Armstrong and Asham are the two that I have in mind. Its been reported the wings have had Armstrong in their sight the last 3-4 off-seasons. I would like them to snag him this off-season for 2-3 years. A scrapper that will fight with the best of them, has great play making ability, and can score a solid 20-25 a year.

He's a good player, but he's way out of our price range unless a trade is made, as he will probably command at least 2.5+ on the open market and we simply don't have the cap space...

[Hockey Convert 55]

You can't have a player who just sits on the bench for all but 5 minutes of a game anymore. Everyone has to contribute.

I think this is a fair point; but I'd really like to see a fighter on the team even if the contribution otherwise is just being solid defensively and checking (being a solid 4th line player). My hope is that it would help everyone play a little tougher. I hate watching the Wings players get pushed around in a game. The example I always think of is a game last season, and I can't now for the life of me remember who we were playing, but I watched some idiot from the other team knock Datsyuk's helmet off in the corner, after the play had moved on. This happened at least three times. I want to say this was before we'd acquired Brad May, and I remember yelling at the TV and really wishing we had a goon out there to answer that crap. Datsyuk, of course, is a pro and never complained or let it get to him.

So I guess my vote would be "it would help", though I understand the argument above. Gotta be a solid skater too.

Edit: auto-format is killing me...

Edited June 7, 2010 by Hockey Convert

[Guest micah]

Did dressing fighter Riley Cote for half the season hurt the Flyers?

I think the wings are good enough to be able to give some thug (like May) 4 mninutes a night throught most of the regular season and still make the playoffs (where said thug's services are less likely to be needed). The presence of a low-talent fighter on a team in the regular season doesn't seem to have a clear effect on the success of a team. It doesn't help much, doesn't hurt much, but it will usually provide a bit of fun in November when the susperstars are coasting, so I'm all for it.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Did dressing fighter Riley Cote for half the season hurt the Flyers?

I think the wings are good enough to be able to give some thug (like May) 4 mninutes a night throught most of the regular season and still make the playoffs (where said thug's services are less likely to be needed). The presence of a low-talent fighter on a team in the regular season doesn't seem to have a clear effect on the success of a team. It doesn't help much, doesn't hurt much, but it will usually provide a bit of fun in November when the susperstars are coasting, so I'm all for it.

I don't know if using the team that got into the playoffs on a shootout in the last game of the season is the best approach at getting your point across. Especially when the player in question only played in 15 games, not half the season.

Anyway, I would love to see a fighter on the Wings roster. But like others have said: I want to know that he can score when needed and wont be a liability.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I don't know if using the team that got into the playoffs on a shootout in the last game of the season is the best approach at getting your point across. Especially when the player in question only played in 15 games, not half the season.

Anyway, I would love to see a fighter on the Wings roster. But like others have said: I want to know that he can score when needed and wont be a liability.

Exactly... very poor argument for "pro-goon"

[uk_redwing 495]

All said and done, who could really say no to Derrick Boogaard?

[LeftWinger 5,129]

Catch 22. Last time we had a couple of guys who were more than willing to drop the gloves was 2008, and you see how that worked out. Yet, having a pure fighter on this roster doesn't seem to help. Dallas Drake and Aaron Downey actually contributed in other ways than fight (Drake more than Downey) and we cannot forget how happy we all were after Lappy leveled Lidstrom and had to eat fists later on, right? Plus, Drake was a huge part of our Stanley Cup run. Brad May is no Aaron Downey and Todd Bertuzzi was no Dallas Drake, it's obvious what has been missing since 2008, but to what extent do we need a tough guy? We've seen that May barely helped us at all in the playoffs and we never really got that Dallas Drake type player (thank you salary cap) when we needed him. That being said, I do believe we need a player that is more than willing to drop them, yet be out there for 60-70 games instead of 15-20. He needs to be able to skate, hit and fight and do it well enough that people are looking twice before they run Datsyuk or Hudler. Admittedly I don't really know too much about the guys being mentioned around this place, outside of recent research on Exelby. If we could land someone like Drake (if they are out there) it would really help this team, but as for a pure fighter who is gonna sit for 27 minutes a night and only play 15 games, I think we can pass on that type player...

[Konnan511 1,736]

I wouldn't mind someone who can fight as long as he can play 10 mins a night and contribute 10 goals or 25 points by seasons end.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

A tougher player can only rub off on the rest of the team.

It helps to have a guy that can energize the team with some big hits and can stand up for players when need be. You want your team to have all the dimensions and be well rounded.

I don't see how that player can hurt the team, unless he takes stupid penalties all the time. However, that depeneds on the particular player, so it's unfair to stereotype that against fighters in general.

As for offensive production, once again, that depends on the player. It doesn't hurt to have 4th liners that can score, but if they're soft and don't know how to check (Williams), then they don't help on the 4th line no matter how much they can score. 4th line is for energy and hitting first and foremost. Scoring is secondary when it comes to choosing a tough guy. We don't need our enforcer to play on the top line after all.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I wouldn't mind someone who can fight as long as he can play 10 mins a night and contribute 10 goals or 25 points by seasons end.

This is pretty much my mindset, although my expectations aren't even that lofty - I just want a guy that will go through a wall for his teammates, can play a solid 8 minutes a night, chip in 20+ pts, is solid defensively and doesn't take bad penalties... anything above that is just gravy... can we go into a hottub time machine and get a Brad May in his prime?

A tougher player can only rub off on the rest of the team.

It helps to have a guy that can energize the team with some big hits and can stand up for players when need be. You want your team to have all the dimensions and be well rounded.

I don't see how that player can hurt the team, unless he takes stupid penalties all the time. However, that depeneds on the particular player, so it's unfair to stereotype that against fighters in general.

As for offensive production, once again, that depends on the player. It doesn't hurt to have 4th liners that can score, but if they're soft and don't know how to check (Williams), then they don't help on the 4th line no matter how much they can score. 4th line is for energy and hitting first and foremost. Scoring is secondary when it comes to choosing a tough guy. We don't need our enforcer to play on the top line after all.

I still would love to see us somehow pull a deal and get David Clarkson here from NJ... I wonder what they'd want in exchange for his rights... I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least one team throws an offer sheet at him either this year, which will force NJ's hand to either match, or lose him for draft picks...

EDIT - I know it's a pipe dream, but this is one of the only ways I could see parting with Bert -

lines arbitrary:

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.920m) / David Clarkson ($2.000m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Darren Helm ($0.630m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.550m)

Mattias Ritola ($0.517m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Garnett Exelby ($1.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $58.0m; PAYROLL: $57.855m; CAP ROOM: $0.145m BONUSES: $0.000m

That roster makes me very happy...

Edited June 7, 2010 by stevkrause

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

This is pretty much my mindset, although my expectations aren't even that lofty - I just want a guy that will go through a wall for his teammates, can play a solid 8 minutes a night, chip in 20+ pts, is solid defensively and doesn't take bad penalties... anything above that is just gravy... can we go into a hottub time machine and get a Brad May in his prime?

I still would love to see us somehow pull a deal and get David Clarkson here from NJ... I wonder what they'd want in exchange for his rights... I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least one team throws an offer sheet at him either this year, which will force NJ's hand to either match, or lose him for draft picks...

EDIT - I know it's a pipe dream, but this is one of the only ways I could see parting with Bert

lines arbitrary

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.920m) / David Clarkson ($2.000m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Darren Helm ($0.630m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.550m)

Mattias Ritola ($0.517m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Garnett Exelby ($1.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $58.0m; PAYROLL: $57.855m; CAP ROOM: $0.145m BONUSES: $0.000m

That roster makes me very happy...

I'd trade my own wife for Clarkson to be in Detroit.

If I had a wife that is.

Edited June 7, 2010 by GMRwings1983

[Echolalia 2,961]

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m)

Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.920m) / David Clarkson ($2.000m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / Darren Helm ($0.630m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.550m)

Mattias Ritola ($0.517m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

Garnett Exelby ($1.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 22; CAP: $58.0m; PAYROLL: $57.855m; CAP ROOM: $0.145m BONUSES: $0.000m

That roster makes me very happy...

Now that's a roster with some chest-hair on it.

(5 star rating to whoever knows what that is a reference to)

[stevkrause 1,247]

Now that's a roster with some chest-hair on it.

(5 star rating to whoever knows what that is a reference to)

Teen Wolf?

[jollymania 162]

Did dressing fighter Riley Cote for half the season hurt the Flyers?

I think the wings are good enough to be able to give some thug (like May) 4 mninutes a night throught most of the regular season and still make the playoffs (where said thug's services are less likely to be needed). The presence of a low-talent fighter on a team in the regular season doesn't seem to have a clear effect on the success of a team. It doesn't help much, doesn't hurt much, but it will usually provide a bit of fun in November when the susperstars are coasting, so I'm all for it.

did it help them?

As others have stated, guys like Asham and Armstrong (to a lesser extent fighting wise) are good choices

[13dangledangle 968]

What would be AWESOME is not a Downey/May type player for around 1mil or under but a Mike Richards or Jarome Iginla type player for 4 to 6 mil. We will have to wait until Lids is done but I think a player that can score, hit and fight is what we need.....you know like GORIDE would do.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I would be comfortable with any one of the following:

Artyukhin - UFA/27 years old - 54 games played

16 points

2 fights

127 hits & 10 blocked shots

Asham - UFA/32 years old - 72 games played

24 points

14 fights

92 hits & 16 blocked shots

Nichol - UFA/35 years old - 79 games played

19 points

4 fights

226 hits & 36 blocked shots

Nystrom - UFA/27 years old - 82 games played

19 points

6 fights

117 hits & 51 blocked shots

Winchester - UFA/29 years old - 64 games played

8 points

10 fights

143 hits & 12 blocked shots

I think out of these 5 guys Nystrom or Asham would be the best fit for Detroit's system. I included Artyukhin as well because he's only a year removed from a 249 hit/7 fight season, and the guy is huge (6'4, 255 lbs.). Like I said though, any of these guys I would be cool with.

PS: If I'm off on any of the info just correct me.

[newfy 695]

We don't need a guy who will play 5 minutes a game and just fight but at the same time we don't need a guy who is going to score 10 goals a season and fight heavyweights. Our third liners barely scored 10 goals this year guys so for a guy to scrap heavyweights and score 10 goals would be pretty damn good.

We need to get a player or two who can fight but skate pretty well, make a break out pass, hit and be defensively responsible. We don't need fighters that score, we need fighters who will fit a role on the PK or can just play a solid 10 minutes a night without getting burned all the time.

25 points from a good fighter is a lot to ask for a cheap contract but for around 800k we could get a solid player that is good defensively, kills penalties and wills tick up for his team. Thos offseason has A LOT of good fits to make this team harder to play against.

I can't say if having a fighter really makes this team better but I will say this. You can't argue that when this team has been tougher to play against with grittier guys (guys who usually are able to fight like Drake) we have been more successful. When our team has been softer and more skilled with no balance of tougher players we lose and get worn down instead of wearing down other teams.

Guys who fight and stick up for themselves also rub off on the team, when May was in the lineup everyone had more edge to their game and a few guys were even fighting. Fighters do have an effect on the team mentality.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I would be comfortable with any one of the following:

Artyukhin - UFA/27 years old - 54 games played

16 points

2 fights

127 hits & 10 blocked shots

Asham - UFA/32 years old - 72 games played

24 points

14 fights

92 hits & 16 blocked shots

Nichol - UFA/35 years old - 79 games played

19 points

4 fights

226 hits & 36 blocked shots

Nystrom - UFA/27 years old - 82 games played

19 points

6 fights

117 hits & 51 blocked shots

Winchester - UFA/29 years old - 64 games played

8 points

10 fights

143 hits & 12 blocked shots

I think out of these 5 guys Nystrom or Asham would be the best fit for Detroit's system. I included Artyukhin as well because he's only a year removed from a 249 hit/7 fight season, and the guy is huge (6'4, 255 lbs.). Like I said though, any of these guys I would be cool with.

PS: If I'm off on any of the info just correct me.

Asham and Nystrom are my 2 choices off that list, but I'd be VERY ok with Winchester as well and wouldn't be opposed to Artyukhin... no thanks on Nichol though - way too many stupid penalties and injury prone, not to mention not a spring chicken anymore and a little guy at that (although with a lot of heart and no fear - a little guy nonetheless)

[newfy 695]

Asham and Nystrom are my 2 choices off that list, but I'd be VERY ok with Winchester as well and wouldn't be opposed to Artyukhin... no thanks on Nichol though - way too many stupid penalties and injury prone, not to mention not a spring chicken anymore and a little guy at that (although with a lot of heart and no fear - a little guy nonetheless)

I think Nystrom is the best choice by far. Most offensive upside, still young, could very well end up a drake clone that fights more and Calgary might be looking to shake the team up a bit.

I want someone younger then Asham but wouldn't hate having him obviously. No to Nichol for the same reasons you said, plus he isn't big enough to really lay punishing hits. Arty is a tank but I would rather have other guys.

Winchester I'm starting to think we have the best chance to get and is probably just as tough as all of them with a lot of offensive upside. I couldn't complain about any of them and would all be better replacements for Miller and Maltby

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Asham and Nystrom are my 2 choices off that list, but I'd be VERY ok with Winchester as well and wouldn't be opposed to Artyukhin... no thanks on Nichol though - way too many stupid penalties and injury prone, not to mention not a spring chicken anymore and a little guy at that (although with a lot of heart and no fear - a little guy nonetheless)

I agree on Nichol's size, but I think out of all the UFA's he reminds me the most of Drake. Ultimately, I'd take Nystrom, Asham, Winchester, Arty then Nichol in that order.