ATTA BOY KOPECKY

[Guest micah]

The fact that Downey isn't in doesn't mean winning a fight doesn't boost momentum and crowd energy.

I'm not knocking Kopecky, good for him for sticking up for himself. That doesn't make the timing right. Again, if the Ducks had fed off of the momentum and scored again there would ten Kopecky-bashing threads started this morning. Just because something works out well doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Okay. If winning fights boosts energy and momentum, and this is an advantage for the team, why don't the Wings sign some thug for $500k a year?

I'm as big a fan of hockey fights as anyone - but not because it makes the team that wins the most fights anymore likely to win the game. I applaud the toughguys because sticking up for yourselves and your teamates is the right thing to do, the chance of a good fight makes for a more entertaining product, and because soccer on ice bores me to tears. I like the hockey I grew up with and I'm not going to appologise for that. I understand it won't likely come back anytime soon, but that won't stopp me from omurning it's passing and praising the brave men who aren't afraid to break a nail (or an orbital bone).

[lets go pavel 2]

Okay. If winning fights boosts energy and momentum, and this is an advantage for the team, why don't the Wings sign some thug for $500k a year?

I'm as big a fan of hockey fights as anyone - but not because it makes the team that wins the most fights anymore likely to win the game. I applaud the toughguys because sticking up for yourselves and your teamates is the right thing to do, the chance of a good fight makes for a more entertaining product, and because soccer on ice bores me to tears. I like the hockey I grew up with and I'm not going to appologise for that. I understand it won't likely come back anytime soon, but that won't stopp me from omurning it's passing and praising the brave men who aren't afraid to break a nail (or an orbital bone).

We have Downey (not that he's a thug, but he serves a similar purpose), and his value to the team has been well documented, and well-disputed, in other threads. Likewise his wealth of playing time last year and lack of it this year has also been debated at length. I don't want to rehash all that here.

There are lots of factors that contribute to winning or losing a game. None of them, apart from scoring more goals than the other guy, guarantees a win. However, it would be naive to say a fight never helps a team win. Momentum, energy, confidence, tendency toward physical play, crowd noise - all of these things can contribute to the outcome of a game, and all of these things can be affected by fighting.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

....because the Wings are a physically weak team - too weak to play the game that Parros plays. If Downey were dressed, Parros would be dressed.

If the Wings are too weak to play the game Parros plays, then answer NN's question.

Given your stance, why wouldn't you absolutely play Parros to exhibit physical dominance and thus get the Wings off their game?

[Guest micah]

Which question? The one where he asked why Parrros isn't playing? I did.

Parros serves no purpose against a team of nancy-boys if the rules state that you can't pick fights with said nancy-boys. As the rules are today, you can be a Maltby and be reasonably certain that you won't be taken to task for it. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

Edited May 8, 2009 by micah

[Reds4Life 51]

Which question? The one where he asked why Parrros isn't playing?

Parros serves no purpose against a team of nancy-boys if the rules state that you can't pick fights with said nancy-boys.

Ergo he is useless.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Sidenote: I'm so sick of people claiming fighting is the big thing that gets the team/crowd "into it". A nice setup, a relentless forecheck, a big hit, strong neutral-zone play are some of the many things that get a team (and knowledgeable fans) "into it". Why do grit slappies think fighting is the end all to pump up the team/crowd?

[Guest micah]

There are lots of factors that contribute to winning or losing a game. None of them, apart from scoring more goals than the other guy, guarantees a win. However, it would be naive to say a fight never helps a team win. Momentum, energy, confidence, tendency toward physical play, crowd noise - all of these things can contribute to the outcome of a game, and all of these things can be affected by fighting.

Sweet. We should rdress a fighter!

[Reds4Life 51]

Sidenote: I'm so sick of people claiming fighting is the thing that gets the team/crowd "into it". A nice setup, a relentless forecheck, a big hit, strong neutral-zone play are one of the many things that get a team (and knowledgeable fans) "into it". Why do grit slappies think fighting is the end all to pump up the team/crowd?

That and there is hardly any fighting left in the game.

Those so called fighters just hug. That's all they do.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Which question? The one where he asked why Parrros isn't playing? I did.

Parros serves no purpose against a team of nancy-boys if the rules state that you can't pick fights with said nancy-boys. As the rules are today, you can be a Maltby and be reasonably certain that you won't be taken to task for it. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

So if Parros serves no purpose against a team of "nancy-boys" as you call it, that makes him useless. Like I said initially.

No need to sugar-coat it and say the Wings don't play the type of style Parros does. The bottom line is that Parros is useless against the Wings.

[Guest micah]

Ergo he is useless.

In this situation, I agree. It sucks, but I agree.

[Guest micah]

Sidenote: I'm so sick of people claiming fighting is the thing that gets the team/crowd "into it". A nice setup, a relentless forecheck, a big hit, strong neutral-zone play are one of the many things that get a team (and knowledgeable fans) "into it". Why do grit slappies think fighting is the end all to pump up the team/crowd?

You ever been to a hockey game? Strong nuetral zone play and a hockey fight do not have the same effect on the crowd.

[Guest micah]

That and there is hardly any fighting left in the game.

Those so called fighters just hug. That's all they do.

I know. 'Member when Lilja's brain got hugged too hard? That sucked.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

You mean the Parros that played all six games of the Sharks series and Game 1 of this one? Yes, I've seen him.

esteef

I know this was meant for NN, but I'll chime in. The Sharks are a more physical team than the Wings. Dressing a guy like Parros makes more sense in *that* matchup. Not to mention the Ducks jumped out to a 2-0 series lead. If they had lost the first two (and possibly as early as after the first loss) Parros would've been benched. Carlyle wasn't about to mess with a roster that was winning, no coach does. Simple as that.

[lets go pavel 2]

Sidenote: I'm so sick of people claiming fighting is the big thing that gets the team/crowd "into it". A nice setup, a relentless forecheck, a big hit, strong neutral-zone play are some of the many things that get a team (and knowledgeable fans) "into it". Why do grit slappies think fighting is the end all to pump up the team/crowd?

No one is saying fighting is the only way to pump things up. But if there is a fight, as there was last night, don't you think the winning player's team typically gets a boost in the energy/crowd noise department?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

You ever been to a hockey game? Strong nuetral zone play and a hockey fight do not have the same effect on the crowd.

No s***. My point is just because the crowd gets "into it" doesn't mean the players are all of a sudden going to start playing better like so many grit-slappies seem to claim. A strong play can have the same effect on the players....which is more important than the crowd anyway.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Nope. The Ducks are in a series against a physically weak team. Parros isn't needed. The wings don't have anyone who would dare fight the guy, they're just too dainty. If the wings only had players who were afraid to shoot the puck, the Ducks wouldn't have to dress a Goalie either.

You know why. It's because nobody on the Wings has the sack to fight him. Toughguys aren't allowed to pick fights with whoever they want anymore. The game has changed. It used to be, if you wanted to play hockey at the professional level, you better be able to take care of yourself, or your team will appoint a caretaker to you. Now, you can be a cowardly ***** all you want, and the refs take care of you. I'm not sure it's better.

....because the Wings are a physically weak team - too weak to play the game that Parros plays. If Downey were dressed, Parros would be dressed.

Parros serves no purpose against a team of nancy-boys if the rules state that you can't pick fights with said nancy-boys.

Micah, I'm so shocked that you have such negative things to say about the Wings. You usually have such positive things to say about players on the Wings roster.

You mean the Parros that played all six games of the Sharks series and Game 1 of this one? Yes, I've seen him.

esteef

Hence the question asked if you have seen him lately. He has very little value against a team like Detroit.

Edit: * Added additional derogatory comments by Micah about "his favorite" team.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Frozen-Man

[kook_10 1,705]

No one is saying fighting is the only way to pump things up. But if there is a fight, as there was last night, don't you think the winning player's team typically gets a boost in the energy/crowd noise department?

not if he is beating up on a weakling. if that was a couple of feared heavyweights going at it it would.

i think in fact it had the opposite effect. it is more energizing and confidence building for them to simply bully the Wings and humiliate them when they don't fight.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

No one is saying fighting is the only way to pump things up. But if there is a fight, as there was last night, don't you think the winning player's team typically gets a boost in the energy/crowd noise department?

I think both teams get charged up seeing their guys stand up for each other. Last night's fight was counteractive because it got the crowd into the game, but it also took out one of the Ducks' better defeneseman when they desperately needed two goals. Of course fighting gets the crowd/players into it....there's just plenty of other things that do it as well.

[lets go pavel 2]

not if he is beating up on a weakling. if that was a couple of feared heavyweights going at it it would.

i think in fact it had the opposite effect. it is more energizing and confidence building for them to simply bully the Wings and humiliate them when they don't fight.

So Kopecky getting his ass kicked de-energized the Ducks and stripped them of their confidence? I'm not seeing it ... as I said before, good for Kopecky for sticking up for himself, but I don't think it was the best decision.

[lets go pavel 2]

I think both teams get charged up seeing their guys stand up for each other. Last night's fight was counteractive because it got the crowd into the game, but it also took out one of the Ducks' better defeneseman when they desperately needed two goals. Of course fighting gets the crowd/players into it....there's just plenty of other things that do it as well.

I agree with you. It was a trade-off, and luckily it worked out for us. But had it not, I think we would all be questioning the timing of things.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

So Kopecky getting his ass kicked de-energized the Ducks and stripped them of their confidence? I'm not seeing it ... as I said before, good for Kopecky for sticking up for himself, but I don't think it was the best decision.

In the sense that it got the crowd excited, but it did harm the Ducks more than it did good. Beauchemin was then out until under the 4 minute mark. That's helpful for the Wings.

[kook_10 1,705]

So Kopecky getting his ass kicked de-energized the Ducks and stripped them of their confidence? I'm not seeing it ... as I said before, good for Kopecky for sticking up for himself, but I don't think it was the best decision.

I think it benefits the Ducks more to be able to tell Franzen to "get up" or to smack Pasha around or to stick a couple guys in the head and know there is nothing they are going to do about it. When someone like Kopy answers the bell it detracts from their intimidation gameplan.

Edited May 8, 2009 by kook_10

[esteef 2,679]

I know this was meant for NN, but I'll chime in. The Sharks are a more physical team than the Wings. Dressing a guy like Parros makes more sense in *that* matchup. Not to mention the Ducks jumped out to a 2-0 series lead. If they had lost the first two (and possibly as early as after the first loss) Parros would've been benched. Carlyle wasn't about to mess with a roster that was winning, no coach does. Simple as that.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Fact is he's an enforcer that played the entire series against the best team in the league (record-wise) in the playoffs, which according to some on this board should never have happened. And oh by the way, they won the series with said fighter in the lineup. No place for enforcers in the playoffs my ass! That's all.

esteef

[Frozen-Man 144]

You ever been to a hockey game? Strong nuetral zone play and a hockey fight do not have the same effect on the crowd.

Yeah NFM I'll bet you've never even been to a hockey game! I'll bet you have never laced up a pair of skates or even stepped on the ice.

I added this type of stupid comment to the Dead To Me thread the other day.

[lets go pavel 2]

I think it benefits the Ducks more to be able to tell Franzen to "get up" or to smack Pasha around or to stick a couple guys in the head and know there is nothing they are going to do about it. When someone like Kopy answers the bell it detracts from their intimidation gameplan.

I agree with your first sentence ... however, I don't believe that Kopecky getting his ass kicked is going to affect their gameplan one bit.