Babcock pushes Lidstrom for Hart

[Konnan511 1,736]

MLive

To sum everything up:

Wings coach Mike Babcock is doing some serious lobbying for Nicklas Lidstrom to win the Hart Trophy as league MVP.

Here's what he said about him after practice Monday: "I'm going to just do some lobbying here. When Schneids (Mathieu Schneider) came here, he played with Nick and had the best year he's ever had. When (Andreas) Lilja came here, he had a career year. When (Danny) Markov came here, career year. When (Brian) Rafalski comes here, he's having a career year.

"This team wins all the time. To me the best player, what he does is he makes people around him better. I don't know how you can be the best player in the league if your team isn't it. That's what the best player does.

[kozac 10]

I wouldn't mind it. But its probably gonna go to Ovechkin, if the caps make the playoffs. Or to Kovalchuk if the thrashers do. Also its hard to single out Lidstrom as the mvp on a team that has Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

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Edited February 5, 2008 by Mudvayneowns91

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I wouldn't mind it. But its probably gonna go to Ovechkin, if the caps make the playoffs. Or to Kovalchuk if the thrashers do. Also its hard to single out Lidstrom as the mvp on a team that has Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I don't think them just getting to playoffs should be enough. There's too much parity in the nhl (besides us) for that to work. There's 15 teams within 7 points of eachother. So what about the other players like Iginla, Lecavalier, Malkin or Alfredsson? They are all having great years that are comparable to Ovie or Kovalchuk. They're getting in the playoffs too besides Vinny. So should they not be considered as canidates as well?

Edited February 5, 2008 by Mudvayneowns91

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I don't think them just getting to playoffs should be enough. There's too much parity in the nhl (besides us) for that to work. There's 15 teams within 7 points of eachother. So what about the other players like Iginla, Lecavalier, Malkin or Alfredsson? They are all having great years that are comparable to Ovie or Kovalchuk? They're getting in the playoffs too. So should they not be considered as canidates as well?

I think the thing is that you have to look at what there is to work with around you. Yeah, Alfie is having a good year but he's got Heatley and Spezza up front with him. He's also got a fine defense corps with Phillips, Redden and Meszaros.

Look at Lids, he has 2 forwards in Z and Dats that might be in the top 10 in league scoring plus 2 goalies that are leading the league in GAA.

Now look at Ovechkin. Can you seriously name another player on the Caps roster who is a stud? They have some nice young offensive players but without AO, that team would be lucky to have 10 wins this year.

[egroen 384]

*If* there is not a forward (Ovechkin) who is head and shoulders above the rest, then they might look at goalies, if there is not a goalie (Luongo) who is head and shoulders above the rest then they might look at defensemen, where there clearly is one head and shoulders above the rest (Lidstrom).

The stars really need to align properly for it to happen.

Edited February 5, 2008 by egroen

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Babs has got a great point. Its really a shame that Lidstrom doesnt have a Hart trophy to his name. Itd be interesting to see what Detroits offense would look like without a guy like Nick. He runs those outlet passes and runs the PPQB like nobody else in hockey.

..and whoever said making the playoffs shouldnt be the deciding factor these days makes a great point.

[Doggy 130]

I really think Lidstrom has a better chance than he's ever had. Mainly because of two reasons: Crosby's injury and Detroit's domination.

He's the best player in the world and the most valuable player in the NHL. I can't understand why someone would think he shouldn't win the Hart trophy.

[awingsincebirth 0]

I started a thread about this very issue on Sunday, and pretty much all the posters agreed that he probably wouldn't win it just because of the way the award is set up to favour superstars on poorer teams.

One new thing that I am wondering is that if Detroit can keep up the absolute domination that they have been, you might wonder if the voters mite make it a special circumstance. If Detroit could end up with a 25-30 point lead over the next best team, do you think that the voters might say, "There hasn't been a team this good for a long time, maybe we should take a look at the ONE key player who made it that way"??

That player is Lidstrom, no ifs ands or buts.

[lets go pavel 2]

I really think Lidstrom has a better chance than he's ever had. Mainly because of two reasons: Crosby's injury and Detroit's domination.

He's the best player in the world and the most valuable player in the NHL. I can't understand why someone would think he shouldn't win the Hart trophy.

well, to be honest i'm not sure there was that much agreement that he was even the most valuable player on the team ... pavel, hank, and ozzie also got quite a bit of support if i recall ... now, none of that is to say that he isn't deserving of the hart, but when you can look at a guy like ovechkin who is clearly carrying that team, i'm not sure you can say the same about lidstrom ... that's not to say lidstrom isn't equally valuable, just that he doesn't stand out as much ... he'll get the norris, i doubt he'll get both

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I wouldn't mind it. But its probably gonna go to Ovechkin, if the caps make the playoffs. Or to Kovalchuk if the thrashers do. Also its hard to single out Lidstrom as the mvp on a team that has Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I disagree. While Z and Dats are elite players in this league, Lidstrom is on a different level than anyone as far as I'm concerned. Does anyone remember when they interviewed Crosby two seasons ago and asked him which player in the league that he's plaed against is even better than what he thought before joining the NHL ? His answer: Lidstrom.

Losing a guy like Z or Dats would be crushing....losing Lidstrom would be apocalyptic.

[dallas27 7]

Pick the odd man out:

Bobby Orr, Chris Pronger, Nicklas Lidstrom

Clearly it's Pronger, yet the first two are the only ones that have won the Hart and Norris.

[awingsincebirth 0]

I disagree. While Z and Dats are elite players in this league, Lidstrom is on a different level than anyone as far as I'm concerned. Does anyone remember when they interviewed Crosby two seasons ago and asked him which player in the league that he's plaed against is even better than what he thought before joining the NHL ? His answer: Lidstrom.

Losing a guy like Z or Dats would be crushing....losing Lidstrom would be apocalyptic.

I agree completely.

Anyone with a deep appreciation for the game knows that Lids drives the bus around here.

[Nev 1,085]

When Schneids (Mathieu Schneider) came here, he played with Nick and had the best year he's ever had. When (Andreas) Lilja came here, he had a career year. When (Danny) Markov came here, career year. When (Brian) Rafalski comes here, he's having a career year.

Mathieu Dandenault, Dmitri Bykov........

If Lidstrom wins the Hart this year, it won't be because he is the true MVP it will be the Return of the King effect. Was ROTK and its 9 Oscars that much better than the other 2 movies? No, but the people who vote on the Oscars realised that the LOTR series was a truly incredible feat of movie making and rewarded the last film accordingly. Same for Lidstrom. He's been nothing short of brilliant for 15 years, but only in the 2000s has the recognition he truly deserves come his way.

[lets go pavel 2]

I agree completely.

Anyone with a deep appreciation for the game knows that Lids drives the bus around here.

i agree completely, lids is OUR most valuable player ... but ... because of the team he is surrounded by, us losing lidstrom would be less apocalyptic than the caps losing ovechkin, the thrashers losing kovalchuk, the sharks losing thornton, just to name a few ... and unfortunately i think that will be held against him

[seeinred 1,488]

His +46 alone should at least get him consideration. He's 1st in defensemen points, and 4th overall in assists. He plays the 2nd most out of any player in the NHL, and he just makes other teams look ridiculous with the ease with which he plays his position. Plus, the fact that Pronger has one and Lidstrom doesn't just shows the ridiculousness of the system.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Mathieu Dandenault, Dmitri Bykov........

If Lidstrom wins the Hart this year, it won't be because he is the true MVP it will be the Return of the King effect. Was ROTK and its 9 Oscars that much better than the other 2 movies? No, but the people who vote on the Oscars realised that the LOTR series was a truly incredible feat of movie making and rewarded the last film accordingly. Same for Lidstrom. He's been nothing short of brilliant for 15 years, but only in the 2000s has the recognition he truly deserves come his way.

Not even Lidstrom could make Bykov stay in the league.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I think the thing is that you have to look at what there is to work with around you. Yeah, Alfie is having a good year but he's got Heatley and Spezza up front with him. He's also got a fine defense corps with Phillips, Redden and Meszaros.

Look at Lids, he has 2 forwards in Z and Dats that might be in the top 10 in league scoring plus 2 goalies that are leading the league in GAA.

Now look at Ovechkin. Can you seriously name another player on the Caps roster who is a stud? They have some nice young offensive players but without AO, that team would be lucky to have 10 wins this year.

The fact that the East is mediocre and full of parity is just as much of the reason why the Caps even have a shot at the playoffs. I'd rather have my MVP on a more successful team personally. OV is my favorite non-Wing, so it's not like I'm trying to hate on him. I just don't think the MVP should be of a team that is currently 7th to last in the NHL. As for Nick, I think that Lidstrom makes Ozzie/Dom look a lot better than the other way around.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Mudvayneowns91

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

i agree completely, lids is OUR most valuable player ... but ... because of the team he is surrounded by, us losing lidstrom would be less apocalyptic than the caps losing ovechkin, the thrashers losing kovalchuk, the sharks losing thornton, just to name a few ... and unfortunately i think that will be held against him

Exactly

I think it all goes back to what *your* definition of MVP is? League MVP or Team MVP? If its League (like mine is) it should be Lidstrom, no different than it was Brady over Favre.

[Hank 0]

I'm ashamed that I've never thought of this before, but seriously, why hasn't Nick won a Hart trophy yet?

In my mind he's been the best player in the league over the past 6-8 years.

Ask any GM in the league who they'd choose for 1 season - any of the last 5 Hart Winners, or Nick Lidstrom.

I'm a giant Crosby slappy, but if I had my choice last year, it'd be Nick. Just like it should have been Nick over St.Louis, Theodore, etc.

But it seems that the Hart only goes to guys that were on the cusp of greatness and then had a monster season.

The only other player I can think of that's close to Nicks skill and importance is maybe Luongo.

[Opie 308]

I think the Norris trophy ruined it for any D-man to really have a good shot at the MVP, unless a season like the one Pronger won in happens.

If there were a category for best defenseman, best forward then MVP I think you would find that D-men would have a better chance.

[Reds4Life 51]

He definitely deserves Hart for all the work he has been doing for years.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I agree completely.

Anyone with a deep appreciation for the game knows that Lids drives the bus around here.

And Ovechkin doesn't drive the bus in Washington?

We can stump all we want, it's never going to happen because its the most valuable player to his team.

You, Mac and some others might think its oh so obvious that Nick is the MVP for the Wings. But that's just you guys. Some of us think Dats or Z or Ozzie could be the MVP of the Wings. It's sort of like the Fedorov jersey retirement debates. If you have to think about it and haggle about it then it ain't going to happen.

Look at Ovechkin, there is no other player on that team that you could remotely say challenges him for MVP of the Caps. It's clear cut.

Nick is the best dman in the league, but he plays on the best team in the league with some of the best players in the league. He may drive the bus but the bus isn't a bus, its a ******* rolls royce with the type of handling that would make you have an accident in your pants.

Whoever said losing him would be apocalyptic? Dramatic much? Apocalyptic in my book would mean the Wings would not be in the playoffs and would be vying for a top 10 draft pick. Anything less than that is not apocalyptic and merely drama for the sake of.

AO scored 2 more times last night. That's 45 goals in 54 games. That is ******* sick. He's leading the league in scoring. The next best Caps forward is Backstrom who is 58th in league scoring and

Their best dman is Mike Green, who is a rookie and only 22yrs old.

The rest of the D is comprised of Poti, Pothier, Schultz, Morrisson and Jurcina. None of which has more than 15 points on the season.

And look at their goaltending. Kolzig is 18-18-4 with a 3.07 gaa and miserable .883 save percentage.

Yet, the Caps find themselves just 1 point from the Southeast division lead and a guaranteed 3rd seed in the playoffs.

IMO Nick is worthy of mention but to proclaim Nick Lidstrom head and shoulders above everyone else when AO is doing unbelievable things in Washington.....well, I won't say it but you all know what i'm thinking......

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

His +46 alone should at least get him consideration. He's 1st in defensemen points, and 4th overall in assists. He plays the 2nd most out of any player in the NHL, and he just makes other teams look ridiculous with the ease with which he plays his position. Plus, the fact that Pronger has one and Lidstrom doesn't just shows the ridiculousness of the system.

Actually, it shouldn't. Konstantinov was +60 in 96 and he didn't even win the Norris. So no, having a high +/- alone should not get you consideration.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Exactly

I think it all goes back to what *your* definition of MVP is? League MVP or Team MVP? If its League (like mine is) it should be Lidstrom, no different than it was Brady over Favre.

Here's the league's definition of MVP:

Hart Memorial Trophy

The Hart Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the player judged to be the most valuable to his team. The winner is selected in a poll of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association in all NHL cities at the end of the regular season.