Yzerman's All Time Ranking

[sticknmove 0]

"Again though, what the heck that has to do with actually be successful at playing the game I have no idea. I don't know if I'd but Trottier (wasn't that Stevie's idol??) ahead of Stevie but I wouldn't kick somebody's teeth in for suggesting it. I might like to kick your teeth in for suggesting Stevie is ahead of Gretzky or even Mess. Thankfully, the lunacy of that makes you look silly enough that there's no need to add injury to insult. okay there homer."

It means that if Yzerman had been on the teams the messier and grezky were on, surrounded by the talen they were, he would be higher then 6th on the list of career points, there, clear enough for you moron. And you call me the homer. Second, you are correct about trotier being his idol, howver i cannot find the corelation between his ranking and my personal opinion of trottier. gretzky was great and always had a great supportinf cast, messier however is not even is yzermans league bro.

[BeeRYCE 2]

messier however is not even is yzermans league bro.

Oh, I wouldn't say that. They both were equal in skill level, in terms of playmaking, finding the net, etc. What Yzerman has up on Messier is his defensive ability and heart, BUT Messier has physicality on Stevie, and physicality is a pretty important. I only rate Stevie higher because well I'm a Wings fan, and the fact that I'm a huge fan of the defensive aspect of the game. Fans of the more hard nosed players would pick Mess. It's apples and oranges with Messier and Yzerman, at the end of the day, they're both at the exact same level.

[Wildwings44 5]

He's in the top 4

Howe, Gretzky, Orr, Yzerman,

[BeeRYCE 2]

He's in the top 4

Howe, Gretzky, Orr, Yzerman,

Yzerman is better than Lemieux? Get real.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Yzerman isn't top 10 (he's close...top 13) and I stand by that.

Ahh yes because Havlat is going to be 11th, and Ruutu 12th.

Btw..im just messin' with ya.

Why 13 though? Who's ahead of him?

Edited July 21, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[Kp-Wings 3]

There's questions in brackets right beside the name.

You're anti Wings remarks are not welcomed here. There's a certain line between being a homer and being logical. When being logical, it would take tons of explaining to easily include Yzerman in any top 10 list.

Including Yzerman in a top 5 list is homeristic, including him in a top 10 list is logical.

Exactly.

This guy is nothing but some blowhard who sits around and spews his hate for the Wings, like Detroit and Chicago are still rivals or something. Note the fact that the Wings and 'Hawks rivalry has been dead for about 12 years now, or more depending on how you look at it.

Chicago has done nothing the past 10 years. In fact, during that time period, they have made the playoffs only once, and were docked in 5 games by St. Louis. Nothing to be proud of.

I don't mind a little good natured ribbing and what not, but this guy is just a troll, and a pretty damn stupid one at that. The guy acts like Havlat is an instant lock to the HOF.

[LeftWinger 5,068]

...the only argument I have is, in my opinion, NO WAY does Messier rank above Yzerman... Not a chance...

Messier is the best captain in nhl history. Yzerman is 2nd best.

:rotflmao: :puke:

Oh, I wouldn't say that. They both were equal in skill level, in terms of playmaking, finding the net, etc. What Yzerman has up on Messier is his defensive ability and heart, BUT Messier has physicality on Stevie, and physicality is a pretty important. I only rate Stevie higher because well I'm a Wings fan, and the fact that I'm a huge fan of the defensive aspect of the game. Fans of the more hard nosed players would pick Mess. It's apples and oranges with Messier and Yzerman, at the end of the day, they're both at the exact same level.

...problem is, if Yzerman played with gretzky half his career, he'd be #3 or #4 in scoring behind Gretz, Howe & Lemieux...

...Messier was a beneficiary of great teams in the 80's compared to Yzerman's teams in the 80's...

...and to say that Messier was a better captain? LOL! Look at the teams he captained, all teams with great line-ups, well except the time he spent in Vancouver and well, his GREAT captain skills didn't prove too good there...

By FAR Yzerman was a better Captain and player than Messier!

Yzerman still isn't top 10.

...you're just stupid...

[Lou_Siffer 1]

The only two things i know for fact is Lemieux was better than Gretzky and Yzerman is somewhere between 5-7. I'll let you guys figure the rest out.

[sticknmove 0]

"The only two things i know for fact is Lemieux was better than Gretzky and Yzerman is somewhere between 5-7. I'll let you guys figure the rest out. "

i can deal with that, good peer mediation lou.

[eva unit zero 271]

For most of his career tho, Yzerman was not a defensive forward. It wasn't until Scotty came on board that things changed.

Wrong. Yzerman received Selke votes as far back as the 80s, and is the only player in league history to receive at least one first place Selke vote in the same season he scored more than 140 points. Bryan Trottier has said Yzerman, even as a rookie, was excellent defensively. Darren Pang has said that Yzerman played that style as far back as juniors.

1) Gordie Howe

2) Bobby Orr

3) Wayne Gretzky

4) Mario Lemieux

5) Steve Yzerman

Any other top-five list is just wrong.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Wrong. Yzerman received Selke votes as far back as the 80s, and is the only player in league history to receive at least one first place Selke vote in the same season he scored more than 140 points. Bryan Trottier has said Yzerman, even as a rookie, was excellent defensively. Darren Pang has said that Yzerman played that style as far back as juniors.

1) Gordie Howe

2) Bobby Orr

3) Wayne Gretzky

4) Mario Lemieux

5) Steve Yzerman

Any other top-five list is just wrong.

eva- I couldve sworn I remember you debating that Yzerman was the best of all time in another thread before

[BeeRYCE 2]

Would it be a stretch to say Jagr might end his career as one of the top players? He has five good years ahead of him in which he may average 100 points per season in every one, which COULD inch him close to 2000 points. It's VERY possible. Not to mention his point per game average is one of the best ever. People hate him, but when it comes to the best of all time, he is pretty underrated.

[GMRwings1983 8,802]

Would it be a stretch to say Jagr might end his career as one of the top players? He has five good years ahead of him in which he may average 100 points per season in every one, which COULD inch him close to 2000 points. It's VERY possible. Not to mention his point per game average is one of the best ever. People hate him, but when it comes to the best of all time, he is pretty underrated.

I think that his personality will prevent others from ranking him anywhere in the top 10. Also, he doesn't have the same legend status that other top 10 players have.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Yeah, I agree, but potential to reach #2 in all time scoring should heighten that status.

[GMRwings1983 8,802]

Yeah, I agree, but potential to reach #2 in all time scoring should heighten that status.

I'm not sure about that. Ron Francis is 4th all time in points, and no one has him ranked anywhere close to the top 10.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Francis is more one dimensional, and his point per game average isn't near Jagr's. Jagr has 5 Art Ross, 2 Lesters, and 1 Hart under his belt.

[SweWings 45]

Francis is more one dimensional, and his point per game average isn't near Jagr's. Jagr has 5 Art Ross, 2 Lesters, and 1 Hart under his belt.

If he also manages to get a cup with NYR he'll probably get rated higher as well...

[Seraph 240]

Would anyone argue that Stevie was the best franchise player to date? As in, if you were going for the long haul, you'd want him in your team's core and believed he'd be dedicated to stay and develop with the team.

Because I could see that, but that could be because of sentimental reasons.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Would it be a stretch to say Jagr might end his career as one of the top players? He has five good years ahead of him in which he may average 100 points per season in every one, which COULD inch him close to 2000 points. It's VERY possible. Not to mention his point per game average is one of the best ever. People hate him, but when it comes to the best of all time, he is pretty underrated.

No, Jagr will never recieve that kind of recognition, mainly because of his attitude. Especially the year Lemieux came back out of retirement and Jagr wouldn't let him be the team captain again.

[eva unit zero 271]

Francis is more one dimensional, and his point per game average isn't near Jagr's. Jagr has 5 Art Ross, 2 Lesters, and 1 Hart under his belt.

Jagr would have ZERO Art Ross rophies if he hadn't played with Francis in his best years. Francis is one of the most prolific offensive players ever, and also just happens to have won a Selke and contended for others. Extremely underrated player.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

I think it's impossible for me to be objective about Yzerman. So I'll just say he's in the top 10 and leave it at that. Plus I don't know enough about previous eras and their players to make a fair all-time list.

And I wasn't in either Yzerman's or Messier's locker room so I couldn't tell ya who the better captain was. Although Mess had a rep of being an in your face yelling ******* captian vs Yzerman just stepping up and taking care of bidness. Yeah, I can't be objective there either.... haha.

this is probably the only logical post in this whole thread.

[eva unit zero 271]

eva- I couldve sworn I remember you debating that Yzerman was the best of all time in another thread before

If I were building a team and could pick one player to start with, it would be Yzerman. I have posted elsewhere that had he not had a major knee injury during the 88 season, he LIKELY would have ended up second on the scoring list (he comes damn close just by filling in games missed due to the knee with his GPG and APG for that same season, and only a fool would think the long term effects of the knee injury didn't affect his play drastically in later years)

However, it would be foolish to rank Yzerman's career ahead of Gretzky or Lemieux, who overshadowed him most of his career, or Howe and Orr, who I obviously ranked ahead of Wayne and Mario. I think Yzerman suffered in that the only supporting cast he ever saw in his career came after he had suffered two major injuries and was on the back nine of his career. Most other 'great' players had excellent players to play with during their prime.

I do think Maurice Richard gets far too much credit, though. People talk about his 50 in 50, but forget that the Hart winner that season was not Richard, but his centerman, Elmer Lach. Richard is the only Hart winner in history to have also been beaten by two players who were his linemate at the time (Lach and Jean Beliveau)

Richard was a great player, but in 18 seasons he only led the Canadiens in scoring five times. Jean Beliveau, Elmer Lach, and Dickie Moore all led the team in scoring at least three times during Richard's tenure and both Beliveau and Blake led more times overall yet receive a fraction of the praise given to the Rocket.

[stevie for president 42]

Orr, Howe, Gretzky, and Lemieux are for sure ahead of Yzerman. Bobby Hull, messier, and Ron Francis are in his league. I say anywhere from 5th to 8th is a fair spot for yzerman overall. and that includes celebrity status, impact to the game, and leadership. ask the average joe schmoe who yzerman is and i bet you dont get the correct answer, but messier lemieux gretzky and howe will draw you correct responses. and no one influenced the game like bobby hull and wayne gretzky. Yzerman had a huge impact in detroit but he didnt fill crowds like gretzky and hull, from what ive heard.

[HomeNugget 2]

Francis is more one dimensional, and his point per game average isn't near Jagr's. Jagr has 5 Art Ross, 2 Lesters, and 1 Hart under his belt.

Ron Francis is fourth all-time on the scoring list, averaged over a point a game and won a selke. above average offense combined with above average defense. 1+1=1?

[BeeRYCE 2]

You're right, I honestly forgot Francis's Selke.

As for Jagr feeding off Francis's success. I'm inclined to disagree. 3 of his 5 Art Ross trophies were WITHOUT Francis, 2 of which without Lemieux. During the late 90's, Jagr was the Penguins. The last 2 seasons with New York, he was the Rangers, with the exception of Lundqvist of course.