gcom007

Some fans get way too hung up on a goalie and forget there's a team out there too. They also forget about funny stats like skaters score, team does well in playoffs. Skaters fail to score, team does poorly in playoffs. Every year we've had poor playoff outings it's come down far more to the skaters. This is blatantly obvious looking at the stats. And '02 especially against the Canucks?!?! It's almost a disgrace to Yzerman. I'm not saying Hasek didn't play well or didn't help, but what turned that series around was Steve Yzerman. The team including Dom wasn't showing up and Yzerman spoke up and set the wheels in motion to turn things around. The team came out and won. Hasek helped, but if you're going to look at anyone stepping up more than anyone else in that series, it's Steve Yzerman. You know, sometimes I value your opinions and slants as there's no disputing that Hasek has been one of the great goalies of the game, but other times you're just a starry-eyed fan.

True enough to some extent about Kozlov but he always turned it on in the Playoffs. I do believe Osgood was/is more capable than people give him credit for. I'm not saying he's elite or one of the best but I don't think that diminishes the fact that he's consistently been a pretty great goalie. He's never been flashy and he doesn't attract a ton of attention off the ice, but he's consistently been successful individually on good and bad teams. Consistency is key. That's the thing in my book. Last year for example, sure, Hasek played some great games in the playoffs but he hardly look phenomenal all the time either and in Game 6 against the Ducks, he really didn't show up in a huge must-win situation. Especially in the 3rd period. When we started gaining steam he let in yet another goal that he should've stopped at all costs let alone the fact that it was a fairly soft goal. Personally, I don't think Osgood loses that game. He might not steal as many games as Hasek could, but he consistently tends to play well enough to win so if the team shows up, you're in good shape. You don't have to worry so much about Game 6's like the one we got from Hasek. I'm not blaming him, I'm just saying. There's really something to be said for Osgood's consistency. It's not flashy and it doesn't make the best press usually. But now after a few years with shaky goalies who couldn't handle the stress and watching the oftentimes-lopsided play of Hasek, people are starting to realize this about Osgood. It's interesting because everyone seems so surprised but if you asked Osgood, I think he'd be the first to say that he's not surprised at all. 12 shots or 40, big or small game, post-blowout win or loss, he's consistent. There's a lot to be said for it. Also, thanks for the apology. I'm definitely glad now I didn't return the favor as I was about to. Never really does any good. No harm though and I truly respect that even on a stupid message board you came out and apologized. Nicely done. I think Ozzie's one of the last goalies around that crumbles under pressure. You don't play as many games as he has in a Detroit jersey without the highest tolerance of pressure. You've got to have an extremely high tolerance to get anywhere with this team so given how much he's been through with the team, you're unlikely to find a more steady goalie. Even for him to come back as strong as he did after the game 7 loss in '93. You're 20 years old in your rookie year, you're starting for a Stanley Cup-starved team, it's a game 7...oh yeah, you're playing Detroit, a land that eats goalies and quarterbacks for breakfast with the best of them. He put the final nail in the coffin with his failed-dump play and he still comes back to become the 2nd in all time wins for the Wings as well backstopping the '98 team to the Cup on his own...and he's still not done. If you don't think he can handle pressure, you're kidding yourself.

I would expect him to be on good behavior at a team event, my experience with him and more so the experience of others I know personally was not a team centered circumstance. It was just day to day life when he wasn't on the clock more or less. Does it matter on the ice? No. Like I said though, given how I feel about his locker room drama (call it what you will but all can admit that on some level, it's been present...) combined with the Dom-centered mentality that I'm not a fan of, it's a recipe for me to dislike him. It all adds up. Believe it or not, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Dom hasn't given me much of a reason too unfortunately. In terms of how he handled giving the money back, I applaud that. That was the classiest move he could've made and I commend him for it as it was totally unprecedented and unnecessary. And sure, management didn't have to bring him back, but they sure put them in a bind. If they don't sign him, he probably goes to Colorado. But again, my thing goes back to the beginning. I don't think we ever needed him. I think Osgood was more than capable of winning in '02 and beyond and he's proving that still today. Keep Kozlov in the organization and we have another life-long Red Wing we can ALWAYS count on for production in the playoffs. He had clutch written all over him and that's something we've sorely been missing since he left and the future Hall of Famers finished their swan song tour with the Wings. So again, we skip Hasek, I think we've got a Cup in '02 and maybe more and we skip all the drama that's resulted since. Only in Manny's second playoff run did goaltending contribute to our elimination. We've always been up to snuff in that department so again, I'm not quick to throw credit at Dom because he backstopped the Yankee's of the NHL to a Cup in '02. Furthermore, last year we were successful in the playoffs because Babcock got them to play a different game than they've played. It's always come down to the skaters showing up or not. Hasek's been in the right place at the right time if you ask me. Not saying he's played bad before this year, but he wasn't the reason or answer either year we've had success with him. Like most, you wholly and completely underestimate his ability. That's fine. I think he'll have his chance to carve his legacy as one of the Wings greats in the next few years.

It doesn't have anything to do with hockey in some ways, but let's put it like this. I don't like Manny Legace as a goalie. I didn't want him starting and I feel that he played a hearty role in our early exit second time through. Not saying the team didn't fail to do their part either, but usually our goaltending is strong enough to get us through. This time the skaters sucked and the goaltending sucked. I was calling it in October before the playoffs that if he started he'd blow it. I didn't like him as a goalie. But, he's a real nice guy off the ice it seems so generally speaking, I don't dislike him too much. Not everyone can be a good starter. The thing about Dom off the ice is that I don't like what he brings to the team. He's not a team guy. He talks the talk to the press and you obviously eat it all up based on your last paragraph. Not saying any of it's not true, but at the same time, have you ever heard of PR? You think they're going to air their dirty laundry to the press while he's here? No. Everything is rosy. Funny how as soon as he's gone teams seem to have quite a bit to get off their chest about him. If it was isolated, I wouldn't think much of it but it's been consistent throughout his career. He's just a self-serving pain in the ass. Plenty of players are but at least they know how to play the game so as not to hinder the team. Dom consistently hasn't. If you ask me, all he's done from the day we acquired him is hurt the team. He took away a great player in Kozlov and pushed off a more than capable goalie in Osgood. Sure, Hasek at his best is a great goalie, but it's not worth the added bulls*** considering this is a team sport. We would've won the Cup in '02 with Osgood in net and we could've skipped the whole Cujo/Dom II/Manny era and maybe skated to another Cup or two while we were at it. Some of those teams were great but they were plagued by so many locker room issues that a mild-mannered coach couldn't handle. Bottom line though, you keep Hasek out of the whole equation and you maintain a far more consistent and balanced TEAM. Even in this last stint where Hasek's put on his best face given the short leash Babcock and management have him on given his history, it still always feels like the Red Wings and Dominik Hasek. I don't think it's healthy. I think the players know it more than they'll let on until mid-season next year when he's been gone long enough that the press and players feel comfortable posting more honest stories. That's where it heads to the ice. If the team doesn't think or play like a team because of drama, even if it's just throwing them off a bit, that can make a big difference as to what's happening on the ice. Hasek adds drama. Hasek's ego is like a giant black cloud in the locker room as has been readily observed and reiterated time and time again throughout his career. No one knows when he's going to just bail. This year though, I don't think many will be too upset when and if he does bail. I think once again the management will be saying, "Enough is enough and good riddens."

It's hardly as if I expect people to be perfect. It's more that besides the malarky he's put Detroit through, he's got to go and be a world class ******* too. Living where I do and given the scene I'm in, I've met more than my fair share of famous people. Call it bragging if you want to be pissy but it's just the reality of the matter for me. I'm not saying it to build myself up as it's really not what it's cracked up to be at all. But the point is, he easily ranks as one of the biggest assholes of all the famous people I've met. Easy. No, I hardly wish to senselessly chastise anyone for being a Dom lover. I question blind faith and irrationality though anywhere I see it. I understand that everyone has different perspectives. I'm just voicing mine. It's not as if I'm the biggest Osgood fan or anything either. I'd rather see him in net as he's playing great hockey and I think Hasek's finally washed up, but the bottom line ends there. The rest are just details. This is a thread to bash Hasek. I don't like Hasek. Like I said, I don't like what he's brought to this team, I don't think we needed him at all to begin with, he's been inconsistent since coming back from retirement and to top it all off, he's such an ******* off the ice that I can't find anything redeeming about him to rally around. If he's in net, I hope the Wings win and it'd be great if "the Dominator" could return as there's no doubt that he's one of the greats, but given that I think that's unlikely to happen and all the drama on the side, I'd prefer that we just wash our hands of him. It won't happen but by his call (which I think could happen at some point if things don't really improve...) but none the less, in my opinion, it'd be ideal at this point.

Just curious. I've met him a few times and found him to be not only an ******* but quite a ****** bag as well. I could see why people have viewed him as a locker room cancer. I also worked at Twelve Oaks Mall when Dominator was first getting up and knew some employees who reiterated the same. Plus my whole experience with him in downtown Birmingham where he got his groove on with about 6 bimbos in a limo days before announcing his retirement so he could return to the Czeck with his family. That was cute too. Classy guy. Well, at least the girls didn't look cheap. So, if it was just that he's more or less screwed with the chemistry of this team for the last five years while only really playing great in one of those years, I wouldn't dislike him so much. Combine that with the fact that he's just a world class ******* off the ice as well and you begin to understand the tip of the iceberg as to why I so profoundly believe that Detroit would've been far better off had he never slipped a Wings jersey on at all.

Have you ever met Hasek?

I'm not trying to harp on Hasek but you can't run from the realities either. Here's the big one for me and it's been the big one for me since last season. He doesn't seem to have the mental toughness anymore. We get a great goal from Z to take the lead with very little time left in the 2nd. Big momentum wave for us going into the 3rd. Hasek gives up a sloppy goal that I think it's fair to blame him on. He went down too early, got out of position and gave up a huge rebound. It happens. I get that. Osgood will give up plenty of those down the stretch. It's not about that. It's that it seems like Dom can't seem to a find a way to come up with those big saves at the right times. All the momentum went back to Nashville then and they took the lead early in the 3rd on another mildly questionable goal. You've got to give your team the ability to work the momentum. Hasek diidn't. That's a big part of the loss as well far moreso than any stats show.

I won't say our lack of PP production didn't hurt us, but when you take a lead at a critical point and you single-handedly hand it right over to the other team, that's a big momentum shifter. Like someone else said, the other goalie played great. He allowed his team every chance to win against a blatantly better team. Dom did not again. The penalty situation in this game was just disgusting though. What a disaster and a disappointment for all parties involved. You've gotta give some solid credit to Mason and the Preds though...they played us hard until the finish. Games like this happen. It comes down to mental toughness.

It's amazing that people are so desperate to applaud and inflate mediocrity because some guy's named Hasek.

No, you can't really blame him. He played as marginal as the rest of the team. But again, how is it that against blatantly marginal teams with Hasek in net, we still find ways to lose? Besides the loss, there's not a lot of "bad" that you can ascribe to this game at Hasek, but what good is there? Plus, the way things went in the last minute for him...ugly. Babcock now... Osgood in net against Columbus. Good. Just in general. Anyways, that second goal I thought was a lousy, lousy goal to give up. He went down early, got out of position, gave up yet another huge rebound and couldn't get there to make the save. All that with a minute left in the period right after we break the tie. Mental toughness...you don't let up a goal there. It's just like that one he let in in the 3rd against Anaheim in Game 6 after we start pulling it around. It just seems like he lacks the mental toughness to really turn it on and make the big saves. He makes saves. He doesn't seem to make too many big saves. Bleh. I'm just sick of this. It's annoying to read about and think about mainly because of Hasek's locker room history. I almost wish he'd just play great so we let it go and move on, but come on already. Post-game...more blame at Hasek then Ken and Mick. I think it's pretty accurate. Step in the right direction but still needs work. Bottom line emphasized though...we're not winning with Hasek in net.

Bottom line is, even if Hasek improves to play as well as last year, if Osgood keeps playing like this and even improving, then he still ought to be starting in the playoffs. If they go even down the stretch and Osgood keeps this up and doesn't start, I'll be surprised. Hasek or not, I think Babcock knows the score but he knows how to keep everyone happy in the meantime. Osgood's really looking like the real deal this year. The numbers don't lie. League leader in GAA and 4th in save percentage. What's Hasek's save percentage again? Oh yeah, last. I'm not a huge stats guy, but come on. Hasek's got a helluva lot of work to do if he expects to start. What's said in the press is all well now, but there ain't no way they're starting a marginally better Hasek over Osgood the way things are going. We'll just watch it play out. I think tonight's going to be a big game for Hasek. If he plays like garbage again, you've really gotta wonder. "It's early" only lasts so long. We keep extending it...it's a big game if you ask me. He's had time now to show SOME improvement and he hasn't. It just seems to have gotten worse defensive breakdowns or not. With Osgood coming off a shutout the night before and so many rough games in a row, I just think tonight could be a defining sort of game for where things will head. Then tell him to get up off his ass and do SOMETHING, ANYTHING to prove it. Thus far, there hasn't been even a hint. That's the problem. I'm all for him playing well if he can, but take off the "fan-girl" glasses and get real. This is beyond a slow start or a slump. He's just been awful; bad defense or not. Believe it or not, 43 might just finally have caught up with him. Maybe he's just lost a millesecond of reaction time, but in this league, that can be enough. Combine that with his knack for not playing well when facing so few shots (and the Wings knack for allowing so few shots) and you've got an ugly situation.

Wow, far better than I've said it... For me, I've been calling it like this since midseason last year. It just seems like things have slowly but surely continued to go downhill since then. Conversely, for Osgood, things have continued to get better and better. If Hasek gets his s*** together to play well split them til the playoffs and go with who's best down the stretch, but I'm wary. Funny though, every year we've sucked in the playoffs we DON'T SCORE!!!!!!!! All our goalies could let in one goal on 74 shots/game and we could lose given the way we scored in those years. Babcock got the skaters going and playing a tougher, grittier game than they have since they've been successful in the playoffs. That was the difference. I don't say this to knock Hasek so much as to state that your point (or lack thereof...) is just completely irrelevant when you look at the big picture.

It's a tough call. I'd probably give Hasek the next start then Osgood one and Hasek two after that and run it like that for a couple weeks to see how it goes. If Hasek doesn't come around, like I said, frankly, I think he'll peace out. If he turns it up, keep it 1 and 1 with Osgood to the end and roll with who's best going in.

I think the point is that if he keeps playing like this whether it's all his fault or not, there ain't no way he'll be starting in the playoffs anyways. Last week I still thought that he's got the job without a doubt. This week, not so much at all and that shift was not a result of tonight's game. No, tonight's game just raised more concerns. But again, you gotta get him some starts to atleast see if he can get it going because if he can, it's the way to go. I just really don't know though. Some people keep saying he just needs more shots and you can't expect him to be good facing so few shots. Well, newsflash, that's what you get when you play behind our D so if you can't deal, then move over for someone who can. I don't care who takes the #1 right now. I just know Dom better show up and show up soon if he's going to. Like I said in the other thread, if he's not rolling by the end of December, I don't see him lasting through January. I don't think he's got enough in his tank this year. Again, I hope he proves me wrong, but I have my doubts.

Hasek will finish strong or retire before the season ends. No way he'll be traded. No one will want him if he's struggling and he's not going to just play for anyone.

You know, it was still a one goal game...I'm not saying it wasn't ugly or we played well and couldn't play a hell of a lot better, but it could've been a lot worse considering peoples reactions. I thought this one was in the bag too after the 1st, but stuff happens. It's disappointing but I'm not really worried about the team, offense, defense, goaltending or otherwise. We've got a solid core of guys up front and a solid D in the back. They'll keep working out the kinks and you know Babcock's got his way of doing things that likely will yield us a solid team come playoff time. Even on the goaltending front, I've been worried about Dom since late summer and am far moreso now, but again, who cares? Here's the deal...he'll get better or he won't. If he doesn't, he's probably going to bow out b/c he's not going to sit the bench all year and half-ass it as a backup. If he can't be the best, he'll leave. I don't doubt that at all. If that happens, we bring Howard up and keep riding Osgood and I'm more convinced than ever that that's ultimately the best idea at some point down the line, be it this year or next. If Hasek gets his act together though, we've got two great goalies. I just don't see the need for worry or concern. All the stuff in the middle is just random BS and drama that'll work itself out on the ice in due time. But since speculating is so fun, I'm going to go with Dom's done before January ends. I think he'll give it a solid go and I hope he comes out and plays his best as it's a good thing, but eh, I'm doubtful...I haven't had a good vibe from him all year...with Osgood playing so well and games like this, then the looming 43...mid-January...that's my bet...but I hope I'm wrong...

Seeing as I think that in peak form Hasek is capable of being a better goalie, I hope that he plays well enough to be the clear starter. That is said despite the fact that I don't really like him much as a person or player. I still want the best guy to be in net. Unfortunately, despite your statement, I think that everyone is aware that there might exist a problem should Hasek be relegated to backup duties. It's convenient for you to say there's no pressure attached to the name of "Dominek Hasek" as a strong Hasek fan, but come on...it's ok to be realistic about this. It is what it is. But again, I agree completely that it's silly to bench him at this point. I don't think Osgood should or will be forgotten about whether Hasek plays well or not, but you've got to give him his shot and sitting around waiting for Osgood to lose is a dumb guage as to when that will happen. And again, this is coming from someone who generally speaking would prefer Osgood as the starter. If I was to speculate though, and it's merely that, I'd have to say that I don't think Hasek is going to pick it up the way he'll need to. Something about him this year just feels off. It's more than just an injury or a slow start. For some reason, just watching him so far, something just doesn't feel right. Again, I can't reiterate that this is speculation enough, but I get this vibe from watching him that he's trying to convince himself he can still do it and still has the drive to be "The Dominator" when in reality it's just not as strong as it once was. I'm not saying it's dead or that he doesn't care, I just think he may be trying to convince himself as much as anyone else. Heaven knows, but before Osgood got rolling and before any talks of injury or slow starts, even in the preseason, something felt off to me about Dom. I guess we'll see, but I just wouldn't be shocked to see him be the backup before it's over if or if little injuries still plague him, I think he'll humbly retire. Heaven knows though...those are just my random musings on the matter. As said, I hope he plays up to his name because when he does, like him or not, he gives us the best shot to win. I'lll be rooting for him, but I can't say I have high hopes. That's true...I was kinda hoping for this matchup for Osgood for that reason alone. I would've let Hasek iron out the kinks against the weaker Nashville team and gave Osgood Columbus if Hasek were to play in one of the two. Seeing as this is our first meeting against Leclaire and the new and improved Blue Jackets, I would want the guy who's playing best in net. It's something for Hasek to get fired up for, but none the less.....Hopefully we'll put so many through Leclaire that Osgood's stats will look better by the end of the game whether he plays or not!

Agree with just about everything here. Hasek definitely hasn't been great but he hasn't been awful either. Osgood playing great is naturally going to skew that for a lot of people. I would've played Hasek tomorrow or the next game. I think it's really silly to wait until Osgood loses as when that time comes, I feel like it would create somewhat of a strange reaction from everyone. I think it's best to just get things swinging and back to "normal" at this moment. If Hasek's going to get out there and prove he's the starter though, he better get out and do it and quickly at that. At this point with a hot goalie like Osgood who doesn't appear to be slowing down just waiting, Hasek doesn't really have a lot of room for error reputation or not. He's 42, soon to be 43. He's gotta prove that isn't the issue otherwise Osgood should be starting. If he can and he can bring his A-game to the playoffs, I'm all for it, but I just hope it's because he's truly the best goalie going in and not because he's Dominek Hasek. Also, if Hasek doesn't step it up quickly, I would hope Babcock keeps an equal rotation going throughout the rest of the season so both goaltenders stay sharp and get time to definitively stake their claim to the starting role come playoff time. Even though I've never been much of a Hasek fan, I still want the best goalie between the pipes come playoff time nomatter who it is. Osgood will most assuredly get his chance next year. This year, only time will tell. I just hope they both get their shot as in peak form, both are more than capable. It's a win-win either way...greater of two greats you might say...

I think the whole "drama" thing is one of the reasons Osgood's overlooked by most. As I said earlier, he's not flashy, he's not dramatic, he doesn't run his mouth, he doesn't look like he's got tourettes syndrome nor does he flip out when things go wrong. He's just a consisten guy who game after game gets the job done. If he hits a rough stretch, he doesn't let it get him down and he gets over it. He's just so strong mentally as far as the craft of goaltending as well as the whole pyschological aspect of handling the pressure. It's kinda sad that these days people need all the drama and flare to recognize someone. Just like Pavel this year. It's not like he's been playing bad but because he hasn't started scoring goals yet everyone's dogging him. It's just silly. I blame MTV...

Yes and no. I think he's playing great but I've always found his game to be pretty consistent. He's got a bad rep for stupid irrational reasons. He's never been the greatest goalie ever but he's been a very, very consistent goalie who brings far more to the table than what meets the eye. Great locker room guy, consistent, stable play, great at moving the puck which is really important to the game we play as a team. He's so smart with the little things. I think time only will tell if it's a career year though because I expect this kind of play out of him which is why it's always confounded me that the Wings brass have given into so many goofballs through the years that have done more harm than good to the team. He's such a smart goalie though and really works at honing the craft of goaltending and apparently he's worked really hard at his style and all that jazz and as he said, he thinks he's a better goalie now than he's ever been. His style isn't affected as much by age as it's based so strongly on positional play. He's pretty much always where he needs to be to make the save. Not flashy but he gets the job done. It's all we really need if we can put the puck in the net. But again, who knows...thus far, he's got potentialy to have a career year but so many factors are at play. I think next year is more likely to be the year of Osgood.

Hasek?!? The power of a name...not that I expected Osgood to be on the ballot, but thus far, come on...I understand the hype and big-name aspect and all, but none the less, nothing Hasek has done thus far this season warrents his name on the ballot. He obviously won't come close to making it, but none the less, it just strikes me as stupid and oxymoronic considering there are a lot of guys having great years that aren't big names that aren't on it.

With a great defense in front of him including Lidstrom playing the s***tiest teams ever. Cry me a river. When the goalie plays as bad as the skaters I can blame him just as much as I blame them which is exactly what I'm doing. Can't you read? Even if we scored more, we would've lost the series based on the play of Legace so how can I not blame him. It was a balanced equation. Goaltending sucked...skaters sucked. Ozzie and Cujo played atleast well enough to win if we could've just put the puck in the net once in awhile. There is a very, very big difference in Ozzie and Cujo's worst playoff performance and Manny's best. Furthermore, they had 10X the trackrecord Legace had anyways. Legace's playoff trackrecord is 0-2 in terms of quality with an * attached to denote the fact that he completely melts down under pressure.

Atleast three times in this thread I've said the team sucked as well and it wasn't all Manny's fault. But Manny deserves as much of the blame as the team in this instance. You can't say that about Cujo in the past or Osgood before him. We usually suck because the team sucks and we've got rotten offense. The goalie usually plays atleast solid enough to win. With Legace, we had no offense and a goalie playing bad enough to lose. Sad thing is, we had Cujo on the bench (thank goodness he came off at all...) and then Osgood on the bench. They should've been the starters right off the bat. Stupid decisions. Stupid fans. A goalie who thinks life is like a childrens paperback novel you read in 3rd grade cause you're a mite hockey player.

blah blah blah...he absolutely played terrible. No one supported him as a starter because he's not that good and they probably saw that he doesn't have the mental toughness for it besides the fact that he's just not that good on the ice. All you fanboys think it's some big conspiracy against him. When are you going to wake up and realize he's just not that good? It's not rocket science. You put up or shut up. He did nothing to help the team win the playoffs two years in a row. He made the situation significantly worse in fact. Two years in a row when two different coaches were foolish enough to take the chance. Lewis got lucky that Cujo came in and saved their asses for atleast a little while. All the pressure...all the pressure...yeah, every other goaltender in the playoffs deals with absurd amounts of pressure too and they still put up! Legace didn't! This is not rocket science! Logic. Reason. Rational thought process. Critical thinking. I know they don't really teach these things in school anymore, but honestly, does anyone have any common sense anymore? Legace fans make me wonder. And stop acting as if I'm just blaming Legace. I said the whole team sucked year after year. Legace is just the first goalie that's sucked right along with the skaters. Because I'm still very bitter. And for the record, I'm much more bitter that we have such irrational fans and a coaching staff that two years in a row made a really stupid decision. It's not Legace's fault that he blew it in the playoffs. He never should've been put in the position to suck so bad. It's the coaches and fans that really piss me off.