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Larkin is a 2C on a good team. Every other center on this team is a 3C at best on a good team. Every bottom six winger on this team is fourth line at best on a good team. Chiarot is a bottom pairing guy on a good team. Petry and Holl aren't playing on a good team. Talbot is the backup on a good team.

That guy's a f*cking disgrace! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vl8yXfnSMw&pp=ygUSZGlzZ3JhY2Ugc2xhcCBzaG90 Edit: Seriously though, leave this kid in the NCAA for his full term and let him develop his game more. Give him ample time to learn to defend properly, but at the same time let him get some of those offensive minutes as he becomes an upper classman on the team. If we can get to the point where he can kill penalties, defense at even strength, and just break the puck out I'd let him be my 6D any day of the week. Basically be Erik Cernak 2.0. Because how on earth do you not like that aggressiveness?

https://x.com/MitchLBrown/status/1674441168325844993 https://x.com/hound4ursister/status/1674445523091111936 One of these?

The Four Nations tourney was a disaster for teams, despite how obviously successful it was for the league. The NHL asked these guys to play in playoff caliber games in the middle of the season. Guys get absolutely f*cked up in the playoffs every year, specifically because the games are so intense and the league thought it was a good idea to do that IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON! Charlie McAvoy was injured for the rest of the year. Matthew Tkachuk was injured for the remainder of the regular season. Larkin and Raymond experienced obvious drop-offs afterward; maybe due to the intensity of the games, maybe due to injuries sustained, maybe due to the fact that they were asked to play in extremely high profile games right before making a playoff push. In any case, they weren't the same players after the tourney as they were during or before it. But what killed our season was the back-to-back against Columbus. We were sitting in a Wild Card spot with points in hand against Ottawa. If we'd won those games (or even one of them) we'd have been like six points up with a game in hand. Instead we walked away with nothing AND got absolutely spanked. It was deflating and we never recovered. I also think the lack of moves at the trade deadline killed us again. I seriously don't think SY pays enough attention to the mental/emotional state of his players. You can't ask guys like Seider and Larkin (or the goalies) to get absolutely mauled all season long and then do nothing to help them down the stretch. It kills them, year after year. Imagine busting your ass every night (and getting the hell beat out of you too!), all while laboring under the hope that maybe your GM will get you some help at the deadline. And then nothing happens...again...year after year. You absolutely CANNOT compete in the modern NHL with the defense we just iced for a whole season. SY says the team HAS to be better defensively and then moves on from Walman, Maatta, and Gostisbehere while icing a roster with Holl, Peter, and Gustafsson. HOW??? Like, HOW was that going to make us better defensively? There were many critical moments during the season when a variety of Red Wings, from management to the coach to the players, had opportunities to step up and make something happen. Instead we got a HUGE dropoff from our best players after the 4 Nations, back to back losses to Columbus, a humiliating final game against Montreal, Craig Smith at the trade deadline, and Holl/Petry/Motte playing big roles on a historically bad PK.

To be fair to stevie, im not convinced anyone else could do better. Hes hit on his 1st round picks (the ones you NEED to hit on) and his trading ability is actually very good. But i am seriously confused by, and disagree with, his lack of direction. As well his coaching choices. You can be the Scotty Bowman of GMs, but an inability to acquire the right personel or lead this team in a distinct direction will sink even the best. So basically i dont think hes a bad GM/hockey brain, but I do think he has made serious mistakes at this point. Mistakes he may come to regret.

Been saying it for SEASONS with an S now... but we are again stuck in the mushy middle. Worse, we are not even inching into wild card spots... now we will pick outside of the top 10 instead of top 3 or top 5 (again). Its all so tiresome. The problem is the team literally has no direction. Are we a rebuilder? Are we a potential contender? SY seems to not know (or worse, not care). I have absolutely zero confidence in his ability to do anything of significance this offseason. In fact, I would probably be happiest if he cuts his losses and sheds contracts instead of "loading up" for another failed season... The roster situation is not good. We can shed Kane, Smith, and Petry this summer... but still we will not be able to make a reasonable pass at a significant impact player (like Marner). Its eerily similar to the late Holland era. Directionless. Handcuffed by bloated contracts. Poor on ice product. After Xmas Despicable Me got fired... Todd comes in and seemingly saves the season... and then all the wheels on the bus fall off (again). If SY hasnt read the tea leaves, and realized the problem is his roster, and not his coach, by this point, we are so epicly fuqqed... for a while... This team needs radical, and wholesale change. I think SY is one of the very few sports managers who likely has a leash long enough to admit that to his boss and not lose his job. Does he have the humility to actually do it? We will see. When I say radical change, i mean major moves. 1. Larkin has to go He's captained a group that continually falls short and dissapoints year after year. He's approaching 30... This isnt a playing days yzerman who wins scoring titles and wins cups late in life... This is a very mediocre run of the mill 1C at best. Illitch and SY have chained us to this poor excuse for a "leader" with his most recent contract, and hes a "hometown" jersey seller... so i doubt the org will have the nuts to move on from him... but again (and we toldyaso) everyone in the room knows we are not delivering a cup while he remains as the teams leader and focal point. I would regain a lot of faith in this org if they nutted up and sat Larkin down this summer and asked him where he wants to be traded. We love you. We appreciate all youve done. But its time for you to go run shotgun to a mackinnon while we retool. 2. Buyouts - Gus, Vlad, and Holl If we have to watch these three skate out onto Lil C ice this fall I will continue to punish u ppl with Lions threads. Bc that is all I will care about. SY - admit your mistake and send them packing - them remaining rostered will scream of hubris (and poor management). 3. Trade - Rasmussen Its been a fun experiment. But he is not the product advertised, or even particularly good at being the alternative player we tried to develop him into. Not trading him now - while he still has youth and value - will become another regreted toldyaso so moment in 2-3 years time. 4. Re-sign - no one Sorry Kaner. You're old and poor definsively. Go relax in your glory years on the next suckers roster. Further, the last thing this team needs is more plugs. Shedding would help more than adding. --------------------------------------------- Imagine this scenario: >larkin agrees to a trade, and we send him to his boyhood fan team the tronna leafs. In exchange we acquire the rights to negotiate with Mitch Marner. Leafs get a solid player with term, and we get a verified superstar they can no longer afford. >Ras is sent away for a solid young RHD. >We buyout the losers Unfortunately I dont think SY has a big enough peepee for any of this and will likely just add more crap ass players to the roster... honestly i wouldnt be mad if we went back to marc staal-esque moves and took on cap for picks. But its not likely. -------------------------------------------- Lastly, I wanna make one more point about the deadhorse walman and fabbri trades, that I thought about the other day... Its generally accepted at this point that SY was trying to clear cap for Stamkos, but - as reported - pizzabro didnt get back to him in time to approve the signing and we lost the player. No big deal. Im not mad about losing out on stammer. He's been mostly pizz poor for Nash. However, HOW DA FUQ did you not get approval from ur boss for this move months prior? Did SY literally not start checking who was available in FA until day of??? And why TF are you giving away picks and solid young players to clear space BEFORE getting approval to sign the player you want to do this for??? Im sorry fellow fans - but I really think SY has been a different manager since returning to Detroit. The hunger and dilligence are gone. Hes in retirement mode in a position he knows he can half ass and not be fired from. And hes built a nepotistic office of all his old buddies that are doing the same thing. 7 years. The savior is 7 years in and has not saved us from, nor accomplished, anything. Therefore my radical move #5 is fire yzerman. We are rapidly approaching that conversation and reality.

Well, did we find joy in this season? Was it a close call? Are we filled with happiness or frustration? Nonetheless, the Wings are officially out of the running for playoff contention. Right now, they stand 11th from the bottom, with a 2.5% chance of winning the lottery. Should they intentionally lose the final three games to improve their position in the lottery? Should they send Kasper, Soderblom, and Edvinsson to Grand Rapids to assist in their potential victory? Should they trade the first-round pick to bolster the team in specific areas? Does Steve Yzerman sign more vets or change up and go youth this time? What will Patrick Kane do? Which player(s) get bought out? Waived? Traded? Do they keep the pick and draft another player that'll possibly be up in 3-5 years? It's time to start discussing the off-season! Here are the top 20 prospects according to McKenzie Also of note, Yzerman has 3 draft picks he has to sign this summer, or they become UFA's Liam Dower Nilsson - June 1, 2025 Red Savage - Aug 15,2025 Sam Stange - Aug 15, 2025

I wouldn't mind the offense that Marner brings, but I have my doubts he'll want to be in Detroit.

When Marner signs here, does he get to wear #16? That's a tough call..... Watching the game, Toronto looks like they're floating around, being careful, they don't want to get any players hurt by anything!

Wings will sign Marner, and Kane will come back for $3M.

I'll take this result!

Thanks Lefty for the in depth explanation.

They're about to blow a 3-0 lead, so maybe that draft position will be safe Well, I guess not. Damn team could've played like this three weeks ago!

"Goalies are voodoo and you shouldnt spend high picks on them cause there are broduers, haseks, rinnes, nabokovs, khabibulans, etc etc hiding in the late rounds" Except the ONLY decent goalie the wings have drafted in like 40+ years are Howard and Ozzy. Both average guys to boot... But did we actually finally do it? Checkout Rudy Guimond's stats in the Q. Our 6th round pick from last year. His numbers are insane. Especially for the Q, which is traditionally high scoring and doesnt produce good goalies. Best yet hes only getting better in the playoffs. It's gonna be hillariously ironic if we finally spent major draft capital to nab Cossa and Augustine... and then in LITERALLY the same year Trey is drafted this rando 6th rounder - Rudy lol im the next fuqqing hasek Guimond - comes in and steals the show. In other news, I officially disavow my allegiance to Augustine in the Cossa v Augustine net war. GuimondGuyz lez fuqqin go

Remember, you only get TWO buyouts initially, then once arbitrations are filed you get two more, but they have to be contracts $4M or higher. So buyout Holl and Gus with the first two, then Tarasenko after Soderblom and Johansson file for arbitration (which most players do anyhow, it's nothing personal against the team.) Yzerman will need to trade Berggren before he files, because once he files, he cannot be traded for one season, despite what the arbitrator awards, or even if the 2 sides agree on a contract before the awards.

Idk if you've noticied, but SY has become increasely more chippy and irritable in his EOY media availbities each year... IMO. And I get it... same fuqqing questions. Same fuqqing answers. And last year I was mad he fence sat, but I still had sympathy for him. I could at least rationalize why he did that. We were close... This year I have no sympathy. And if he cops a fuqqing attitude with the media again then fuq him. He doesn't seem to have a pulse on the morale of his team, and he's also quickly losing the narrative with this city. Folks are turning on him in a big way. The tigers and pistons and lions are all excelling in big ways... and its making the wings look like a joke more than ever. Weve waited for the wings and folks are done waiting. In the 90s classic hit film Toy Story, human character Andy famously says: "i dont want to play with you anymore" And that's the current sentiment about the Wings. Yzerman - you no longer have enough rope to act like an arrogant genius. We want some humility and some sorrys at this point. Otherwise, the bashing from woodward sports, 97.1, podcasts, boards, is going to drastically increase. And when it finally goes silent it will be bc we stopped tuning in. Get ur fuqqing crap together and do something.

I suppose if they refuse to report, Yzerman might be able to "waive them for purposes of contract termination." We've seen that done a few times in the NHL. I do believe someone would claim Tarasenko, but Holl has been waived this season a couple of times, and has cleared. Waiving him saves the team $1.15M, so they'd be on the books for $2.250M still. If they bought him out, it would cost them $1,133,334 for 2 years totaling $2,266,668. So I guess the decision is which is best for the team, $2.25M against the cap for one year, or $1.133M for each of the next two years... I say just buy him out if nobody wants him, in two years the cap with be $104M compared to $95M next season, the extra $1.133M wouldn't hurt them whatsoever. That way you are just done with him. In Tarasenko's case, a buyout would cost $1,583,334 in each of the next 2 seasons, or a total of $3,166,668 compared to waiving him (if he cleared) costing them $3.6M for all of next season. Again, in 2 years the measly $1.583M even coupled with Holl's $1.133, totaling $2.716M is peanuts against a $104M cap. I think Holl is more likely to get bought out than Tarasenko, but hopefully neither of them are in the organization next season. He'll need to cut cap somewhere if he wants to pursue ANY high end UFA.

The Wings now sit at 12th overall. Their final 2 games are against Jersey and Toronto, two teams that are in the playoffs and might not care too much about losing to the Wings. I don't see them climbing into the top 10 unless they move up in the lottery. It's time to move that pick for a player to help this team. If that is before the draft or at the draft, it's time. Moving one 1st round pick for an impact player will not hurt this franchise in the draft moving forward. You might even score a young talent that'll step right in, forget the vets. Acquire a younger forward that will help turn this franchise around, picking 12-15 this draft is not going to do that anytime soon. Buyout Tarasenko and Holl, trade Rasmussen and Berggren, throw the kitchen sink at Mitch Marner.$13M+ minimum! Get Ekblad here, even if it cost $8M+! Those are the only 2 UFA's I wanna throw money at. ( I am sure there are more out there that would help, but these two are tops on my list.)

The 4nations derailed both Larkin and Raymond... be it injuries, sulking, fatigue, whatever the were no the same afterwards. I'm not sure if any other players in that tournament fell off as hard as they did. I agree unless we can add a legit player like Marner or Ehlers... it's time to trade Larkin. We also need to change our management philosophy it's an absolute joke that Cossa and a couple more kids aren't up these last 4/5 games to get a taste of the NHL.

Our mistake was letting Jim Nill walk. Stevie is too conservative... we've missed out because of it. When we had lots of cap he failed to weaponize it first picks. That just the obvious.

I was thinking Berggren and their 4th back to them for just Howard. If they want a RHD, I'll give them Tuomisto. BTW Wings win 6-4 tonight vs. Dallas. I watched the 3rd period, where the hell was that team through March? Ugh!

I remember @The 91 of Ryans mocking me for starting a Truscott thread a while back lol... WELL WE GOT OUR MAN ya dirty lobster fisherman! I don't know that you, I, or the Wings are going to be that impressed with Truscott. Sure he's a former 5th round pick and played a top role for UofM, but that Wolverine program has also fallen off a bit under Brandon Naurato. There's a reason he only got an AHL deal. I suspect he's more of a Lashoff than a Dekeyser... However he seems like a real character guy. Multi year captain at UofM. Got his degree. Is pursuing graduate school. Won the HCA "unsung hero" award this past season. And Naurato talks pretty glowingly about his leadership on and off the ice. I could see him with an A or a C on his chest for the Griffs pretty quickly, but might never win a contract from the Wings. That said, im certainly rooting for the kid. ------------------------------------- I like your idea about Isaac Howard. Howard was a beast for MSU this year. And all the Tampa fans are discussing trading him with their lack of roster spots for him and him not signing his ELC to recommit to MSU for another season. It may be a trade that is easy to work. Brisebois and SY's close relationship... Nightingale being a former Wings AC... his wings teammates in Savage and Augustine at MSU... TBL needs cost controlled RHD and draft picks.... To TBL: RHD Anton Johansson + Detroit's extra 3rd from NYR (TBL doesnt have a 3rd) To DET: The negotiating rights to RHD Nick Perbix + LW Isaac Howard Anton Johansson has impressed since arriving to the Griffs this year with 5 pts in 9 games from the backend. Traditionally a more large (6'4") stay at home Dman. Detroit wont need him with Seider already established and ASP coming up behind him, but he might be perfect for Tampa. A prospect they can actually use, unlike Howard. Perbix has quietly been very good for tampa, but they cant afford to keep him, so hes going to hit the market this summer anyway, and would be a great young placeholder until ASP is ready. And Brisebois certainly prolly wants some draft capital. We have an extra third. They have no thirds. Sure Howard was basically a high 2nd - but thats the price for only negotiating rights. Git er done kenny

I dont truly know if its time to trade away a 1st for a NOW upgrade... but at the very least that move would be CLEAR DIRECTION for this team. It's fuqqing maddening to me, this fence sitting. Again we didnt make the playoffs. Again we sold nothing for futures. And again we are going into an offseason where SY will likely have to pay to get rid of his own trash. It's inexcusable. I dont know what direction is best. I tend to lean more towards conserving, and acquiring more futures, as long as we arent in the playoffs... but SY isnt doing that, so screw it, why not. Spend the picks. Go all in. Its better than acquiring more mediocre vets and missing the playoffs again... which we all know is exactly what SY is going to do... Imagine if we had actually sold last year... Walman, thats an extra 1st, now we have MBN and Cole Eiserman. Sprong, Ghostbear, Fabbri, Veleno... thats multiple extra mid round picks. This year we could have sold Ras, Berggren, and maybe even pitched getting Kane onto a contender. BOYYYYY IT SURE WOULD BE EASIER TO STOMACH SPENDING A 1ST TO GET A BYRAM IF WE HAD, YA KNOW, AN EXTRA 1ST TO SPEND say it with me folks... IF WE DONT BELIEVE ENOUGH IN THIS TEAM TO BOLSTER THE ROSTER AT THE TDL THEN WE DONT BELIEVE ENOUGH IN THIS TEAM TO HORDE EXPIRING CONTRACTS EITHER Im sick of this pathetic team and SYs bullspit these last two years. Are we watching the same teams? We clearly arent ready to compete for anything. The roster is soooo physically and mentally soft. After SY gets finished wasting our cap space and picks to get rid of his own roster trash this summer, so he can go shopping for his next round of mediocre plugs all over again, please for the love of all that is holy at least get plugs who have a little sandpaper on them. This team is so easily outworked, pushed around, and soft. Ras = little girl. Eddvinsson = wears sun dresses. For petes sake, the grittiest player on this team is a 5'6" little dwarf man named Debrincat. I wonder if its time to hand this team to Draper, or Horcoff, or Lidstrom. Sheit maybe even Fedorov, or someone else not in the org. If I'm Illitch... i just watched you panic sell your coach (likely to save ur own azz) and that worked for about 2 seconds... but in the end it only delayed the inevitable fall, which came, and now youre going into ur 7/8 season here, and still havent delivered me a single playoff birth. If SY isnt seriously being talked about needing to be replaced behind closed doors, i would honestly be shocked. And looking at our contracts I have zero confidence we can make the moves necessary to avoid this same outcome next year... sux to say, but i wouldnt be upset to see the captain dismissed at this point. Shame its come to this.

I agree with a lot of this! One thing I am mad about is, when is it time to trade a 1st for a player that immediately makes your team better? How many 1st round picks do we need right now? Giving away one in a package, for, lets say a Byram, isn't going to kill our draft capital in the future. Like you said, we'll be picking outside the top 10 again, so yippee! I think if we could package with the 1st, Ras, Berg, maybe a 3rd and/or a prospect like Viro or Tuomisto, it'd be worth getting a player like Byram. I've been off the Rasmussen bandwagon for a long time, he does need to go. He is easily replaceable from within. He doesn't even use his body. Another failed Holland pick. I do give Yzerman credit for his drafting, his 1st round picks are top notch! But again, using one, just ONE, to upgrade your team immediately would not kill them. We need younger, NHL players, under 25, now. That being said, I wouldn't mind if Yzerman threw a bunch of cash at Ekblad, but heck, he's only 29. I actually wouldn't mind if he traded for Stamkos. 3 more years at $8M isn't really that bad considering the cap going up in each of the next three years. I know he has a NMC, but considering that he was inches from signing the same contract with Detroit before Nashville, he'd probably waive it to come here. Send them Rasmussen in a package.

Some juicey drama unfolding with NYR... Calvin De Haan is reportedly very unhappy with how hes been treated in NY, and, according to himself, is prepared to unload about it once the season ends. For reference, De Haan was with the Avs until the Rags traded for him at the TDL. The Rags played him in 3 games after being acquired (2 of which were shutout wins, and De Haan had zero goals scored against him in all 3 games) and then healthy scratched him for the remainder of the season. So essentially, they ripped him from a cup contender, didnt use him at all, and now the Rags have missed the playoffs. Couple this with the other rumors: >all the trouba drama that finally resulted in them trading their captain mid season >Chytill mutually agreed to be traded, indicating the players lack of wanting to remain on the team >Kakko also traded, and has mostly thrived since joining Seattle, unlike his time in NYR... >rumors swirling about bad blood between GM Drury and assistant captain Chris Kreider.. >Lavy won them the pres trophy last year (year 1) but now has missed the playoffs the very next year... this doesnt happen often >they circumvented Barclay Goodrows NTC by waiving him, and SJS agreeing to claim him, which Goodrow was publicly angry about Will be interesting to see what unfolds. Hoping that De Haan and guys like Trouba trauma dump on us this offseason.